Sentiment -Brexit

Discussion in 'General Business Forum' started by Flashh, Oct 11, 2016.

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  1. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    I understand what you mean, and I think many people expect that to happen. Problem is that Europe (or the EU) sees nothing to talk about, and talking to yourself merely reinforces your own beliefs.
     
    Posted: Oct 17, 2016 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
  2. bharris

    bharris UKBF Regular Free Member

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    Isn’t that exactly what you and Scott-Copywriter, The Byre, Gecko001, atmosbob are doing. 90% of our products are imported. We have not had a single price rise from any supplier 2 of them have reduced their prices (both German). Although we do not sell a massive amount outside the UK we have had a huge increase in foreign sales. Adapt to changes do the best you can for your business and get on with it. Please ust stop droning on and on and on.
     
    Posted: Oct 18, 2016 By: bharris Member since: Dec 30, 2014
  3. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    My business is unaffected. My life is deeply affected.
     
    Posted: Oct 18, 2016 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
  4. STDFR33

    STDFR33 UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    They managed to moan for 113 pages in the the last thread. These 6 pages are small fry in comparison :p
     
    Posted: Oct 18, 2016 By: STDFR33 Member since: Aug 7, 2016
  5. Gecko001

    Gecko001 UKBF Enthusiast Free Member

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    Well that is just fine. Good for you, you plan for no price rises just because they are not rising now. I know what I will be doing in connection with my business.
     
    Posted: Oct 18, 2016 By: Gecko001 Member since: Apr 21, 2011
  6. Scott-Copywriter

    Scott-Copywriter UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    If you don't like it, don't read the thread. Put us all on ignore if you wish.

    This is a business forum, and forums are for discussion. We are well within our rights to discuss topics we choose, and many of us have been on here a lot longer than you have.

    It's like being in a house with a room where people are inside discussing topics you don't like, but then repeatedly walking into the room just to tell them that you don't like it. It's far easier to just stay out of the room.

    For some of us, the greatest political and economic shake-up to happen to the UK in a generation is a valid talking point. I'm not here to try and convince Brexiteers that they made a mistake. I just want to discuss it with those who wish to participate.
     
    Posted: Oct 18, 2016 By: Scott-Copywriter Member since: May 10, 2006
  7. atmosbob

    atmosbob UKBF Ace Free Member

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    I am surprised that on a business forum the economy within which we operate is not discussed more often.

    Perhaps if we took away VAT, Insolvency, Sponge Bob there would be very little left.
     
    Posted: Oct 18, 2016 By: atmosbob Member since: Oct 26, 2009
  8. STDFR33

    STDFR33 UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    Well we wouldn’t want new members joining in, would we?


    I think what Bharris is getting at, is that a well balanced debate wouldn’t go amiss.


    GSK back in July committed a further £275m to UK operations, despite backing the remain campaign. McDonald’s says it will create a further 5000 jobs by the end of next year. It isn’t all doom and gloom.


    What hasn’t seemed to have been picked up on is that David Lewis, CEO of Tesco, used to be the CEO of Unilever. Both Unilever and Tesco were pro-remain. Some might think that the ‘row’ was nothing more than causing a stir on the political scene.
     
    Posted: Oct 18, 2016 By: STDFR33 Member since: Aug 7, 2016
  9. KM-Tiger

    KM-Tiger UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    Indeed not, and there are other success stories of inward investment and job creation. All "despite Brexit", of course.

    We have voted for a fundamental change in the way in which we are governed. That will lead to changes in the economy, and that will affect businesses, where there will be both winners and losers depending on the sector and business model.

    Perhaps the worst thing is the current uncertainty which makes it very difficult for any business to make plans. Seems to me that we will just have to tolerate that for a while.
     
    Posted: Oct 18, 2016 By: KM-Tiger Member since: Aug 10, 2003
  10. The Byre

    The Byre UKBF Ace Free Member

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    Like Howard Cosell, I just call it the way I see it. (Though in Mr. Cosell's case, if he didn't see it, he made it up!)

    BUT

    I also remember the pre-EU days of the 50s and 60s and they were horrific. Endless queues at boarders, having to smuggle money out or in, idiotic checks to see how much petrol there was in the tank and a UK population, nearly all of whom had never been outside of Britain.

    Of course we shall all adapt! And no, it is not all doom-and-gloom. "This too shall pass!" as the old fable tells us!

    All I am doing is reporting back what the French and Germans are saying about Brexit - and they are almost to a man, assuming that the UK will just go. No German or French politician has said anything about any deal or compromise being on the table. The platoons of economists at Daimler-Benz, Volkswagen and BMW are calculating the margins and break-even points for a UK market with import tariffs. Aldi and Lidl will adjust their exports to the UK and Siemens will break out a new pocket calculator.

    As I am financing a new business by selling some development property in Germany (but getting German planning officials to agree to anything, is like drawing teeth!) I hope the Pound sinks even lower. For me, the sound of the Pound crashing through the Euro-barrier was to be likened unto the singing of celestial choirs of angels. I have even contracted out the company heating arrangements in advance in anticipation of the Pound taking up limbo dancing.

    But what the general public and most politicians seem to have failed to grasp, is that joining the Common Market and then subsequently, signing up to the EU were both tantamount to being irreversible decisions.

    There was at both occasions, a VERY good argument to be made for not joining in the first place, but at that point, going for some affiliated position, in which the freedom of movement, at least for UK subjects and those we want in the UK, and free trade are established and guaranteed.

    (At the time of the 1975 referendum, the BBC broadcast a debate between Enoch Powell and Quentin Hogg, chaired by Robin Day, each giving prepared speeches on why we should stay - Hogg - or leave - Powell. I recorded them and typed them up for my politics paper for my interim exams for the LSE economics degree course. My lecturer gave them each eight out of ten! Personally, I still feel Powell should have been given at least nine!)

    But then, every since the War, the UK governments of various hues have just made one bad mistake after another. It started with the nationalisation of just about anything and everything the postwar Labour government could lay their hands on (stopped only when the US government woke up to the fact that all their Marshall Plan money was being wasted on socialist ideology).

    This was followed by making the NHS dependent on taxes, and therefore a perpetual victim of politics. Then came a 60% luxury tax on cars and other things, thereby killing off whole indigenous industries. Mismanagement gave us the three-day week and 'bath with a friend', followed by the dogmatic privatisation of anything and everything, come-what-may and the deliberate running down of the NHS.

    The borrow-and-spend madness that was the Blair-Brown-Project was followed by the absolute pointless lunacy of austerity, in the idiotic belief that if we cut back enough, we somehow, by magic, get richer!

    Now here we are - the poorest country in N.W. Europe - but all those mistakes, largely based on political dogma (as well as gross economic illiteracy) pale into insignificance, when compared with holding a referendum to leave the EU, whilst holding the most negative campaign imaginable - thereby guaranteeing the backlash we have seen.

    And May, instead of doing a Helmut Kohl and showing some leadership (in his famous cabinet reshuffle, he threw out every single member who did not agree with his pro-EU and pro-unification position and made sure that they never got to even smell political office ever again) she has formed another motley coalition of Brexitiers and Remoaners.

    We are where we are, not because the UK wants to do a Braveheart and shout 'Freedom!', not because we want to cut off all ties to the rest of the EU, not because we have a better future trading with Jamaica and Western Africa, not because we intend to become the 51st State of the Union and not because we imagine that trade barriers, tariffs and immigration controls are of any benefit, but because Cameron and now May want to avoid civil war in the Conservative party.

    Brexit could also lead to Scottish independence - then you will see the Pound really trouser!
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2016
    Posted: Oct 18, 2016 By: The Byre Member since: Aug 13, 2013
  11. KM-Tiger

    KM-Tiger UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    What endless queues? You showed your (blue) passport and in you went. If you were lucky they would stamp it, and you'd have something to show your friends when you got home.

    There were for a while exchange controls - IIRC £50 max you could take out of the country, but I don't, but that was relatively short lived, and I don't see it coming back.
     
    Posted: Oct 18, 2016 By: KM-Tiger Member since: Aug 10, 2003
  12. KM-Tiger

    KM-Tiger UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    [​IMG]

    Are the Scots really that daft?
     
    Posted: Oct 18, 2016 By: KM-Tiger Member since: Aug 10, 2003
  13. STDFR33

    STDFR33 UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    Scotland will not get independence on the back of Brexit, no matter how much the little bulldog yaps about it.
     
    Posted: Oct 18, 2016 By: STDFR33 Member since: Aug 7, 2016
  14. bharris

    bharris UKBF Regular Free Member

    543 82
    The issue i have is that this thread has become a circular discussion in which mainly 4 people have a similar viewpoint and reconfirming off each other your thoughts turning them into fact. Early on in the thread "Know body knows" was regularly quoted, the sentiment now appears to be more "the end is nigh".

    The internet has rapidly turned from a gulf of easily available information into a very self styled narrow like minded opinion serving device. From google providing search results based upon what you have already searched and read about, entertainment viewing based upon what you have already watched, adverts based upon what you have written in your emails and previous page views. News and political stories based on what you already believe, thus making your views fact as there is nothing to conflict your view point.

    I like most people believe that the thoughts i have are correct, however i am always very willing to be proved wrong. Always question as to why is someone telling me something, normally its for their benefit and not mine.
     
    Posted: Oct 18, 2016 By: bharris Member since: Dec 30, 2014
  15. atmosbob

    atmosbob UKBF Ace Free Member

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    You missed out Carnets.

    My wife quite liked a client I had in Barcelona. They would pay for her to fly there for the day to pick up a wodge of cash. She would have a nice lunch and bring back dinner from the fish market.

    I think that the problem with most discussion about business and Brexit is that many have never involved themselves in exporting or working abroad.
     
    Posted: Oct 18, 2016 By: atmosbob Member since: Oct 26, 2009
  16. Scott-Copywriter

    Scott-Copywriter UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    What saddens me about this is the question of after all the hardship the UK is likely to go through, what is really going to change and make a meaningful impact on our lives?

    - The economy will struggle for years, making the cost of living even harder and austerity even worse.

    - Less money will go into the NHS and public services.

    - Immigration will still be rife: more non-EU come into the UK than EU every year, and a portion of EU migration will continue.

    - Decisions will still be made which infuriate much of the population - whether made by the UK or the EU.

    - We'll still pay into the EU to retain any sort of favourable trading arrangement.

    - We'll still have to abide by many rules and regulations to make our exports valid for EU countries.

    - We'll still be "told what to do" by external parties to compromise on FTAs and the like.

    - We're keeping most EU laws and rules.

    - Scotland are now more likely than ever to break away.

    And to top it all off, it will now be more difficult for Brits to travel, reside and work in the EU.

    So what is this for, exactly? And I don't just mean the principle of "taking back control". I mean what sort of positive impact on us, as citizens of the UK, is this hardship worth taking for?

    I honestly believe there's going to be a moment, at some point in the future, when the penny drops for millions of people that we've left the EU, and they no longer have any bearing on us, yet life hasn't actually changed and has, in many respects, become worse.

    This referendum, and the decision of a large proportion of people out there, has been based on the idea that the EU is largely to blame for their problems. When we've left the EU and these problems get worse (even if they are temporary as some claim), who or what is going to be blamed next?

    Truth be told, it worries me. There are of course many people, like KM-Tiger, who understands the ramifications and accepted the negative aspect in return for what is most important to him. However, I think millions out there are expecting real, positive, measurable change when we leave, so what happens when that doesn't come?

    When yearly immigration still sits well above 300,000 per year (non-EU alone is 282,000), and the cost of living goes up, and taxes go up, it's going to be extremely interesting to see how the population as a whole reacts.

    This is the first time in living memory that such a huge proportion of the population has been directly responsible for a decision which, at least for the next few years, is going to have very negative repercussions in terms of the economy. If there's one positive from this, it's that we get a very intriguing look into what the population of a country will do when they feel the negative effects of a decision they were directly responsible for. It will go down in the history books.

    And before anyone says it, I'm aware that things might get better long term and improve over the status quo. However, the electorate is certainly not renowned for being patient. Even 5, 6 or 7 years of increased hardship is going to feel like a lifetime for many people.
     
    Posted: Oct 18, 2016 By: Scott-Copywriter Member since: May 10, 2006
  17. atmosbob

    atmosbob UKBF Ace Free Member

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    If it were not for less than 20 very rich people campaigning for Leave the ones who voted leave would not have done so. Tax dodging Aaron Banks who backed UKIP, the right wing press and a minority of very well off Tory rebels. You might think that millions voted leave but how many had ever read or heard good things about the EU?
     
    Posted: Oct 18, 2016 By: atmosbob Member since: Oct 26, 2009
  18. The Byre

    The Byre UKBF Ace Free Member

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    I absolutely agree with you on those points!

    No, I'll stick with 'Nobody knows!'

    The end is not nigh! It's not even twenty-to-nigh!

    And as an economist, I seldom fail to tell people that I can predict anything, yep. Really! Anything! (Except the future of course. Nobody can predict the future and only a fool would try!)

    In economics, we have lots of silly jargon words and phrases, like a dead cat and of course the dead-cat-bounce. Then there are loonies and moonies (types of currency and municipal bonds) and of course the infamous 'boiled frog'.

    Every major political decision made since the War has been fundamentally wrong.

    That is why we, despite having many built in advantages, such as language, North Sea oil, good infrastructure and standards of education, are the poorest nation in N.W.Europe. If we persist in putting dogmatic, brainless, semi-educated buffoons, whose only goal is to win the next election, in charge of the economy, this will continue.

    Britain is a nation of boiled frogs.

    After the War, Britain had all the advantages - roads that you could drive upon, trains that ran, bridges intact, a huge fishing industry, a massive car and steel industry with all the plant and know-how intact. It had quite the best educational system in Europe and universities that turned out engineers and scientists of unparalleled quality.

    Every part of that magnificent heritage was thrown away by politicians.

    IF (and that is 'The Great IF'!) Brexit is just another step down that long and winding road from prosperity to poverty, another politician's folly, then I have a pretty good idea where this will all lead.

    Of course, it just might be true, that Brexit is the very first correct major political decision ever made in the past 70 years.

    As the 20% drop in the Pound bleeds through into petrol, heating and food prices, that day will come long before the UK leaves.

    In certain parts of the country, the violent answer will be foreigners. (Which will also answer the question, so often asked of the rise of the Nazi Party - could that happen here?)

    That's the greatest question posed so far!

    "And now?"

    I have 20 acres of land, my own water and even fuel supply. I can feed myself. I have property and family outside of the UK. I shall watch this with detached interest. I might even come and do some sight-seeing for some of the more entertaining riots - in much the same way that my daughter holds roof-top sekt parties, when there are May-Day riots in Berlin.

    (I am reminded of how my Russian born Aunt described watching from a Berlin roof-top, as the Nazis came and flushed out the Jewish women and their children that were hiding in the cellars and attics of the same damn houses and herded them into canvass covered trucks. Years later, I watched from a Berlin roof-top, as the Stasi arrested protesters outside a church.)

    "The revolution will be televised!" And I shall get a 4K camera out for the close-ups!

    My life is slowly coming to its natural end and I suppose I might have another 20 years or so, give or take a few drinks. And like any good movie, the funky part, with all the action scenes, is at the end!
     
    Posted: Oct 18, 2016 By: The Byre Member since: Aug 13, 2013
  19. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    For many people who struggle to cope now, it will be a lifetime, as they will not survive.
     
    Posted: Oct 18, 2016 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
  20. Scott-Copywriter

    Scott-Copywriter UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    If there's one thing I give Brexit leaders credit for, it's pushing the idea of patriotism and "taking back control". Combined with immigration, it was an very effective strategy which perpetuated itself to a degree.

    Of course, it was a case of rich leaders who control the public telling the public to take back control to try and control their voting decision, but in the end, a strong emotive response took hold.

    Another angle they pushed quite well was the idea of dismissing reliance on others. Remainers spoke about how the EU does so much good for us and helps us. Leavers suggested it was insulting that we need anyone from "outside" to grow and prosper.

    They basically pandered to the innate, personal desires of individuals. People wanted to be in control, they wanted to be self-reliant, and they wanted rid of anyone who was deemed to be in their way.

    In the eyes of many, Brexit served this opportunity up on a silver platter. Plus, what was this?! For the first time in decades, they were given a real chance to make a decision? The power was put in their hands to create CHANGE? To finally stick two fingers up at the Government?

    In hindsight, perhaps the result really isn't that surprising.
     
    Posted: Oct 18, 2016 By: Scott-Copywriter Member since: May 10, 2006
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