RTI is coming!

Discussion in 'PAYE letters 2010' started by FrankN, Mar 15, 2013.

  1. FrankN

    FrankN UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    Posts: 4 Likes: 0
    Hi, I'm new to this forum.

    I wonder how many business people in this country are aware of the changes coming to PAYE from 6th April. From that date, all employers will be required to send an online return to HMRC every time they pay there staff. This places a huge extra burden on employers. Everyone who employs staff will either need to have their own RTI compliant software or use the services of a Payroll Bureau or Agent.
     
    Posted: Mar 15, 2013 By: FrankN Member since: Mar 15, 2013
    #1
  2. Lentinus

    Lentinus UKBF Regular Free Member

    Posts: 395 Likes: 89
    Err, that's every month whether you pay someone or not! Unless you register by phone for annual reporting.
     
    Posted: Mar 15, 2013 By: Lentinus Member since: Nov 28, 2012
    #2
  3. kevin.doran

    kevin.doran UKBF Ace Full Member - Verified Business

    Posts: 2,474 Likes: 470
    This forum has a cracking search facility you know.... ;)
     
    Posted: Mar 15, 2013 By: kevin.doran Member since: Nov 28, 2011
    #3
  4. FrankN

    FrankN UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    Posts: 4 Likes: 0
    Hi Lentinus,

    Well, not according to HMRC. The Revenue documentation quite clearly states "each time you pay an employee". I would have given you the link but I'm not allowed as I am new here. Of course, if you pay your staff weekly, then you will have to do this weekly too! What a pain!

    For anyone struggling with this, I will be pleased to offer advice. Just visit my website or PM me.
     
    Posted: Mar 15, 2013 By: FrankN Member since: Mar 15, 2013
    #4
  5. Lentinus

    Lentinus UKBF Regular Free Member

    Posts: 395 Likes: 89
    Don't mean to be rude but I hope it's better advice than that! :rolleyes:

    "If you haven't paid anyone at all in a tax month, then you must send an EPS instead of an FPS. See the guide 'What payroll information to report' - there's a link at the end of this section."

    http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/payerti/reporting/when-to-report.htm
     
    Posted: Mar 15, 2013 By: Lentinus Member since: Nov 28, 2012
    #5
  6. FrankN

    FrankN UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    Posts: 4 Likes: 0
    Yes, cheers for pointing that out!
     
    Posted: Mar 16, 2013 By: FrankN Member since: Mar 15, 2013
    #6
  7. teddys

    teddys UKBF Enthusiast Free Member

    Posts: 855 Likes: 198
    One new item doing the rounds is that RTI for small businesses employing up to 50 employees is delayed to take effect from 06 October 2013! Hope this is true.
     
    Posted: Mar 20, 2013 By: teddys Member since: Apr 30, 2011
    #7
  8. FrankN

    FrankN UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    Posts: 4 Likes: 0
    Yes and No!

    The following is lifted from the HMRC website:
    So, they will still have to report but there is some easing of dates by which they must send in returns.
     
    Posted: Mar 20, 2013 By: FrankN Member since: Mar 15, 2013
    #8
  9. Tom McClelland

    Tom McClelland UKBF Ace Full Member

    Posts: 2,892 Likes: 789
    The easing is minute and applies only to the tiny fraction of employers who pay their employees weekly but operate PAYE on a monthly calculation cycle. So for 99.9% of employers this concession makes no difference at all.
     
    Posted: Mar 22, 2013 By: Tom McClelland Member since: Feb 10, 2008
    #9
  10. deniser

    deniser UKBF Legend Free Member

    Posts: 7,831 Likes: 1,655
    Is this not going to operate through the normal software we get from the IR?
     
    Posted: Mar 22, 2013 By: deniser Member since: Jun 3, 2008
    #10
  11. Tom McClelland

    Tom McClelland UKBF Ace Full Member

    Posts: 2,892 Likes: 789
    It will work through the Basic PAYE tools provided that you employ fewer than 9 people during a PAYE year.
     
    Posted: Mar 22, 2013 By: Tom McClelland Member since: Feb 10, 2008
    #11
  12. Vectis

    Vectis UKBF Enthusiast Free Member

    Posts: 783 Likes: 203
    It meant, for us, downloading the newer RTI software from HMRC. Unfortunately, the software wouldn't actually accept any company or employee details (even though we'd already had the, pre RTI, HMRC Basic Tools). We've had to go for one of the free online versions from a commercial supplier which isn't terribly user friendly.

    It also seems very late in the day to be making the RTI software available. We couldn't download the HMRC software until last Thursday (28 March) when all this is supposed to kick off from 6 April. Given that the software wouldn't work for us we've had to scrabble around to find an alternative - we use Macs which cuts down the possible market and also we're not prepared to pay for something like this so it had to be free too.
     
    Posted: Mar 30, 2013 By: Vectis Member since: Jun 10, 2012
    #12
  13. HPS - Outsourced Payroll

    HPS - Outsourced Payroll UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    Posts: 43 Likes: 3
    In response to the previous post from Vectis, you don't have to pay for your payroll to be processed, but I would suggest ensuring your staff are fully trained and have a good knowledge of the payroll rules. CIPP offer courses fairly cheaply, I think around £1K. While it is a cheap course, it can save you a lot going forward.

    As an example, we took on a client recently, they could calculate PAYE/NI on a weekly basis, but what they hadn't done was take into account a previous error that had affected several employees PAYE. As a result, HMRC penalised them and carried out a payroll investigation.

    We had another client who accepted photocopied P45's. The employee had 2 jobs and used the same P45 for both. After 2 months they left. Our client ended up with the bill for the incorrect PAYE. They processed in-house, now they use us and we prevent this from happening.

    I am not blowing our professions trumpet, but I would strongly suggest you look to find someone who can deal with this for you or ensure you staff are fully trained.
     
    Posted: Mar 31, 2013 By: HPS - Outsourced Payroll Member since: Feb 23, 2013
    #13
  14. Tom McClelland

    Tom McClelland UKBF Ace Full Member

    Posts: 2,892 Likes: 789
    How do you tell the difference, given that the P45 (Online) document can be printed on copier paper? A good quality copy would be indistinguishable.
     
    Posted: Mar 31, 2013 By: Tom McClelland Member since: Feb 10, 2008
    #14
  15. HPS - Outsourced Payroll

    HPS - Outsourced Payroll UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    Posts: 43 Likes: 3
    Hi Tom

    Simple, we only accept the copies from HMRC, these are the ones you manually fill in and tear off the relevant sections.

    When our clients have staff leave, we only use these and issue them as they can't be given to more than one employer.

    If a client gives us a one page e-P45 or copy of a P45 we ask them to get the employee to complete a P46.

    At the end of the day it is the employers responsibility to operate PAYE correctly, if they don't they can be fined.

    As a company it is our responsibility to ensure our clients don't get fined. While it may be a little inconvenient to the employee, we act to get the P9 as quickly as possible so the impact is minimal to the employee.

    P45 can be obtained from HMRC.

    Hope this helps

    Toni
     
    Posted: Mar 31, 2013 By: HPS - Outsourced Payroll Member since: Feb 23, 2013
    #15
  16. Tom McClelland

    Tom McClelland UKBF Ace Full Member

    Posts: 2,892 Likes: 789
    I'm slightly perplexed. P45 (Online) is a legitimate document, authorised by HMRC. On what grounds do you refuse legitimate documents?

    http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/ebu/spec-p45-v3.pdf
     
    Posted: Mar 31, 2013 By: Tom McClelland Member since: Feb 10, 2008
    #16
  17. kevin.doran

    kevin.doran UKBF Ace Full Member - Verified Business

    Posts: 2,474 Likes: 470
    How very strange...
     
    Posted: Mar 31, 2013 By: kevin.doran Member since: Nov 28, 2011
    #17
  18. ChalkyJim

    ChalkyJim Banned

    Posts: 47 Likes: 10
    And they wonder why businesses do not grow ? what a palava ?
     
    Posted: Mar 31, 2013 By: ChalkyJim Member since: Mar 22, 2013
    #18
  19. HPS - Outsourced Payroll

    HPS - Outsourced Payroll UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    Posts: 43 Likes: 3
    I am not saying we refuse to accept legal documents, not at all. As a company, we accept all original legal documents because, employers under The Income Tax (Pay As You Earn) Regulations 2003 have a legal obligation to operate PAYE correctly.

    Further, an employer has an obligation to deduct the correct amount of PAYE due. HMRC take the view, under-deductions of PAYE tax should be requested from the employer unless HMRC direct the employee should pay.

    On receipt of an original P45, we operate the code detailed on the P45.

    Perhaps you can tell me, how do we tell an original online P45 from say the 2nd copy or 5th copy etc?

    There have been a number of cases where an employee has given their new employers, (2 different employers), the same P45. Both employers operated PAYE based on the P45 information. The result was the employee paid no income tax at all on either job. The employee left before the error came to light.

    The employers ended up having to pay the shortfall and a fine as it was deemed they failed to operate PAYE correctly. There were other factors, such as the employee was European, had not yet provided proof of entitlement to work in the UK etc which obviously played a part in HMRC's decision.

    Had both employers ignored the P45 and issued a P46, there would have been no issue in relation to incorrect PAYE being deducted.

    An online P45 or photocopy P45 or email P45 is not an original document. As soon as you send it to someone else, it stops being the original.

    As a company, we have been responsible for payroll for a number of clients over the years who have had inspections only to find nothing was wrong. We make sure our clients stay on the right side of HMRC and have never failed an inspection, not once.

    We have been instructed twice in 5 years to accept e-P45's by HMRC. In this instance, we did, as we are legally obliged to do so.

    It is our obligation to operate the clients payroll correctly. We do not set out to inconvenience employees [FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']unnecessarily[/FONT], we simply operate PAYE to the letter. By doing this, both the employee and employer can rest assured their payroll is being operated correctly.

    By not operating payroll in this way, we leave our clients open to all sorts of issues.
     
    Posted: Mar 31, 2013 By: HPS - Outsourced Payroll Member since: Feb 23, 2013
    #19
  20. HPS - Outsourced Payroll

    HPS - Outsourced Payroll UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    Posts: 43 Likes: 3
    Just a thought, how can we tell if a online P45, (which is a PDF), has not been amended to issue a refund of PAYE? Who would be responsible if this happened and the employee left the company.

    I agree there is too much red tape, but employers need to protect themselves and their staff, so it is not a palava for us to operate PAYE to the letter, which in turn protects our clients and their staff. Business doesn't grow when it gets it with fines for operating PAYE incorrectly as this puts undue strain on the businesses [FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']resources [/FONT]time and money.
     
    Posted: Mar 31, 2013 By: HPS - Outsourced Payroll Member since: Feb 23, 2013
    #20