Rebranding costs - can any graphic designers help us out?

Discussion in 'General Business Forum' started by momentum, Feb 1, 2010.

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  1. momentum

    momentum UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    33 0
    Hi

    My partner and I have been invited to pitch for a rebranding design job. We would be required to design a new main company logo, and from that, subsidiary logos for each department of the company.

    This would then lead to future design of all the company stationery, booklets, brochures and publicity materials (magazine ads, exhibition banners etc).

    Initially though, the client just requires a quote for the logo design and for one marketing/rebranding idea, such as a brochure, as they have not yet fully decided upon their marketing strategy.

    Having not taken on something as large as this before, we are trying to balance our desire to win the job against the amount of time and effort it will take, as well as the importance of the job (branding and logos being something that can initially define a company's image to potential customers). We want to give as fair a quote as possible - fair for the client, but not underselling ourselves or our skills either.

    Up until now we've mainly concentrated on providing a print service, although we are doing an increasing amount of design work, which has happened by chance rather than by us pushing the service. Therefore, we haven't had to think about this before now - but our client needs a quote by this evening!

    Can any designers offer maybe a guideline of what a project such as this would normally cost a client? The client involved is a well established, medium sized company, if that helps.

    We've been researching costs, and logo and rebranding design is being offered at anything from £99 to £600-odd, to the hundreds of thousands!

    Any advice from designers or non-designers is much appreciated.

    Thanks in advance :)
     
    Posted: Feb 1, 2010 By: momentum Member since: Apr 8, 2009
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  2. Damian E

    Damian E UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    9 1
    Hi,

    I've been freelancing for thirteen years now, and I still find it really hard quoting for jobs like this. I always try to discover a rough idea of available budget; it sounds daft but you can put clients off by being too cheap! Most clients want value for money but will also want to think they're getting quality.

    Have they seen copies of your existing work, and is this the reason why they've asked you to quote for the job?

    I'd suggest maybe £200 for the logo if the client can give a well thought out brief and put some research into what they like in advance to cut down on your time.

    The branding is more difficult, so maybe suggest mocking up a couple of ideas which can be used across advertising, the cover of a brochure and the exhibition banner. Suggest maybe another £200 for this but that it wouldn't include full brochure artwork, just a branding exercise.

    Hope this helps and good luck!

    Damian
     
    Posted: Feb 1, 2010 By: Damian E Member since: Jan 26, 2010
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  3. momentum

    momentum UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    33 0
    Hi Damian

    Many thanks for your reply - you've given us some really useful advice. Its interesting to know that even with all your experience that it is still hard to know what to pitch for with this kind of job.

    We were invited to pitch based on existing work that we've done, so its quite nice for us - but quite nerve wracking as we just want to get it right!
    We're not set up as a graphic design agency, we offer the design as part of our print services, so we're very pleased to be given a chance like this as we hope it could lead to bigger things.

    The £200 for the logo is actually what we were thinking of charging. We spent a long while this morning discussing everything with the client, who is very clear about what direction they want to go in and has done a lot of research, so our job now would be just to implement those ideas - a much easier job than trying to come up with a totally new concept by ourselves.

    I like the advice about the initial branding exercise - with something as big as a total re-brand, this seems like the most sensible approach. If they like what we do we can then discuss final costs when the final ideas are decided upon. If I give a price for a 4 page leaflet, then they decide they want an 80 page brochure, I would have to charge more in the end anyway, so this makes total sense.

    Right, I'm off to write up the quote now! (its needed for the morning, which is why we were panicking slightly!) Thanks again for your advice, its much, much appreciated :)
     
    Posted: Feb 1, 2010 By: momentum Member since: Apr 8, 2009
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  4. Direct Print Int

    Direct Print Int UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    69 9
    Hello,

    I have just read the last few posts on this subject and I would like to say that I think £200 is not much for the logo considering that it will have to be developed (and work) as a logo family across all divisions of the company. Having said that, it does sound as if the client has given you a fairly strong direction for the logo design which should save you some time.
    Maybe you can consider how much time you (your team) will spend on developing the logo (add a third of the estimated time because there will always be more changes from client side as expected ;o) and then apply your hourly rate.
    This often seems to work out at a price that seems steep to some clients but you seem to have a good relationship to your client and they will be able to understand what is involved. They have worked with you before and therefore must have the trust in you that you can come up with the service they need.

    Once you have developed a sound idea for the logo, you can then apply it to different mocked up marketing materials as mentioned by Damian. I know the work to prepare the pitch is usually not paid but I do believe that the client will understand that there is cost involved.
    Whatever marketing material you suggest to them, make sure that you try and cover the time you will spend for the final product in your pricing. Obviously you don't want to put your client off with high price but at the same time the price has to make sense to them too. If the price reflects you only spending two hours of your normal hourly rate on a finished design of a 6-page booklet for example, what quality will they expect?

    So, all in all, I think the quotes would turn out higher than previously mentioned.

    I hope this helps,

    Let us know how you got on with the job.

    Kind Regards and good luck.
     
    Posted: Feb 1, 2010 By: Direct Print Int Member since: Jan 7, 2010
    #4
  5. jaffab

    jaffab UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    146 39
    Take a look at 99designs.com. You put up what you want (size, ideas for colours, profile of company), and a 'prize' (say $200) then lots of people create designs for you, you pick the one you like and want to use, and pay just $200 (its a US site, but works fine in the UK) for the design you like.

    Take a look at existing posts, and you will get the idea.
     
    Posted: Feb 2, 2010 By: jaffab Member since: Jan 21, 2010
    #5
  6. momentum

    momentum UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    33 0
    Hi DPI, thanks for your comments and suggestions. I guess that when you do consider what a logo does for a company, and the value of that company's brand in relation to its image and position in their market, £200 isn't a lot, no.

    Its quite hard at this stage to calculate that value, and even harder sometimes to convey and get clients to understand the reasons behind the value of the quotes we give. We've definitely had a few clients spluttering down the phone at us "How much?!".

    We've made the mistake in the past of being far too cheap, so that when we looked back at all the work we did on a project, we were being paid less than minimum wage! All too common beginners mistake!

    But we quickly realised that its the time taken to come up with the design, plus the fact that they are paying for a skill that they don't posses that we have to put a value on. We always think of rates charged for plumbers, or accountants, or solicitors - they can be high, but you're paying for a professional service that you need to hire a professional to do - otherwise you'd do it yourself. Not that we would charge those rates of course, but maybe design just isn't valued as highly as it should be, what with the wide availability of all the design programmes and people creating logos themselves online etc...

    So yes, calculating an hourly rate then applying that rate to the anticipated number of design hours does seem to be the fairest way of working out our charges - we just have to hope to work with clients who understand this.

    The client we provided the quote for does understand (I think) so hopefully our quote will be competitive. And as for the logo design, they are very clear about what they want, so the £200 seemed about right for the hours of anticipated work. Its still hard to know if we've got it right though, when I think again about your original point!

    Thanks again for the advice though, I will let you know how we get on :eek:

    Thanks also to jaffab, its a great website and it could definitely get us out of a fix sometime, perhaps if we're pushed for time (as long as I was upfront with the customer - couldn't go passing off someone elses design as my own!). Also, its a good source of design inspiration - there's some good stuff on there. Thanks :)
     
    Posted: Feb 2, 2010 By: momentum Member since: Apr 8, 2009
    #6
  7. Lasting Designs

    Lasting Designs UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    936 94
    Looking at the bigger picture, you might want to agree to work on an hourly basis if you get the whole gig.

    The need to agree a minimum & maximum hours per month might help both your cause's, you get to know a budget to work to, they get control of their spending. Clients don't like nasty surprises.

    It will also focus your business to work within these times and look to be efficient with your time. They will be more focused on a brief without waffle and flim-flam, best of luck with the pitch.
     
    Posted: Feb 2, 2010 By: Lasting Designs Member since: Aug 10, 2007
    #7
  8. dave959

    dave959 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    4 0
    I would charge £500 for a logo lowest!

    Then day rate would be £200-240 or £25-30 per hour. Which is the lower end of the spectrum for experienced work.

    Less than that would be in the realm of graduates, students, people working in their bedrooms and people from developing countries.

    Also beware of the customer 'Tweaks' these can swallow all of your time, and profit.
     
    Posted: Feb 2, 2010 By: dave959 Member since: Jan 30, 2010
    #8
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