Provided Longer Notice then Contract

Discussion in 'Employment & HR' started by LawAbiding, Jan 23, 2019.

  1. LawAbiding

    LawAbiding UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    10 1
    Hi,

    Hope you are all well.

    My Contract of Employment states that I must provide "at least 4 weeks notice" and the Company can provide the same.

    I handed my notice in and provided 6 weeks notice, this was based on the new employers requested start date. They cannot make it any earlier due to annual leave by the inducting manager. I have spoken to them about the situation and the start date remains the same.

    My employer has now placed me on Garden Leave with immediate effect, and also collected my equipment on the very same day. Thus completely cutting me off from the Company, as the new Employer is a competitor.

    I have now received a letter asking me to sign and return. This letter states that as per my Contract of Employment, they have issued me 4 weeks notice, with all 4 weeks being on Garden leave, the letter stipulates the terms of the Garden Leave etc.

    I feel that this has become "Involuntary Leave" instead of "Voluntary Leave". I did not encourage Garden Leave, and upto the return of the equipment, continually offered to work the full 6 weeks. I rather work then loose 2 weeks pay.

    Citizen Advice states:

    "You can give more notice than your contract says, if you want - your employer can’t make you leave earlier. If they do make you leave earlier, this counts as sacking you"

    As per the Company Policy, as I am a "Involuntary Leaver" this is classed as "Dismissal".

    Where do I stand?

    P.S. I appreciate many people would think 6 weeks off work, with 4 weeks paid is awesome. But I genuinely rather work then loose 2 weeks of pay.
     
    Posted: Jan 23, 2019 By: LawAbiding Member since: Jan 23, 2019
    #1
  2. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

    12,109 3,128
    How long have you worked for them? If it is more than 2 years you would probably win an unfair dismissal tribunal. If less than 2 years, nothing you can do.
     
    Posted: Jan 23, 2019 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #2
  3. LawAbiding

    LawAbiding UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    10 1
    Hi, thanks for the reply, 2 years, 2 months with the same employer.

    During which period I have been in 2 roles.
     
    Posted: Jan 23, 2019 By: LawAbiding Member since: Jan 23, 2019
    #3
  4. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

    12,109 3,128
    Ring ACAS and tell them you want to start the pre-tribunal conciliation process.
     
    Posted: Jan 23, 2019 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #4
  5. LawAbiding

    LawAbiding UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    10 1
    I've responded to employer clarifying the terms of the termination of contract, I asked directly that my pay and benefits would not continue after the date they have stated and each time the answer was avoided.

    I have now made them aware of my view point including what Citizen Advice state.

    They have stated they will continue to consult HR and get back to me.

    Let's see what happens.

    I have been trying to find a tribunal case similar but have struggled so far, but will continue
     
    Posted: Jan 23, 2019 By: LawAbiding Member since: Jan 23, 2019
    #5
  6. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    That sounds as if you have told them not to pay you after the date they have stated? I hope you did not say that.

    I doubt you will find a tribunal case about this. Not many employers are that stupid.
     
    Posted: Jan 24, 2019 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #6
  7. LawAbiding

    LawAbiding UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    10 1
    No sorry I didn't say that, I've asked them to confirm if this is the case and if they are terminating me 2 weeks earlier, to date the questions have been completely avoided.

    I suspect the manager has not taken any HR advice and hopefully the approach will change once HR gets involved.
     
    Posted: Jan 24, 2019 By: LawAbiding Member since: Jan 23, 2019
    #7
  8. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

    12,109 3,128
    Be very careful what you say to them
     
    Posted: Jan 24, 2019 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #8
  9. LawAbiding

    LawAbiding UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    10 1
    Will do
     
    Posted: Jan 24, 2019 By: LawAbiding Member since: Jan 23, 2019
    #9
  10. fisicx

    fisicx It's Major Clanger! Staff Member

    30,382 8,926
    Doesn’t the notice period work both ways? The contract says at least 4 weeks but the employer can decide that you can go after 4 weeks. Or have I missed something?
     
    Posted: Jan 24, 2019 By: fisicx Member since: Sep 12, 2006
    #10
  11. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

    12,109 3,128
    No you are absolutely right.

    However, unless the dismissal is for a fair reason, the employee can claim unfair dismissal if they have 2 years' service. It is not wrongful dismissal - dismissal in breach of contract terms. as you sy they can give 4 weeks notice and they can require garden leave, or even leaving with pay in lieu.

    What they cannot do safely is dismiss without a fair reason, following a proper process.
     
    Posted: Jan 24, 2019 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #11
  12. DontAsk

    DontAsk UKBF Ace Free Member

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    If they can't come up with a valid reason to dismiss you on 4 weeks notice then they will still have to pay you for the extra weeks (2 in the OPs case).
     
    Posted: Jan 24, 2019 By: DontAsk Member since: Jan 7, 2015
    #12
  13. soundengineeruk

    soundengineeruk UKBF Regular Free Member

    375 66
    Just so I read this correctly.

    Does your contract say 4 weeks notice must be given if you wish to terminate your employment? If yes and the company pays you for the 4 weeks then nothing much you can do; however not HR/legal expert.

    Garden leaving to my Knowledge means you are still employed and they (employer) can recall you back to work during the gardening leave process. So, yes you cannot do any work, but you are getting paid in full your contracted pay for notice period.

    From the outside looking in, it appears you have put in your notice too early. The company (current employer) is fulfilling their contract obligations, but they don’t have give you more because your new employer can start until later date; which is more than your notice period.

    So if it is case your employment is terminated after the contracted notice period, don’t think you have a case for unfair dissmal.

    On the non-hr side. Why would a company pay for 2 weeks when you going to work for a competitor?
     
    Posted: Jan 26, 2019 By: soundengineeruk Member since: Jul 25, 2012
    #13
  14. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

    12,109 3,128
    Suppose for a minute someone decides that next year they are going on a round the world trip and they tell their employer their plans and that they will be leaving in 12 months' time. The employer decides that is unacceptable and immediately gives them their 4 weeks notice. Do you think that (assuming 2 years' employment) would be a potential unfair dismissal? What is the potentially fair reason? If you agree that is unfair dismissal, the only difference between that scenario and this one is the amount of time involved. The OP's compensatory award will be limited to 2 weeks as that is their only loss, but it is still unfair dismissal.
     
    Posted: Jan 26, 2019 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #14
  15. soundengineeruk

    soundengineeruk UKBF Regular Free Member

    375 66
    An employer I do not think is legally obligated to except a longer notice period given by an employee. However, the employer has the opportunity to accept a longer notice period or not. If they do accept the longer notice period and they sent confirmation of their (employer) acceptance of the longer notice period, then yes the employer would be liable for payment for the extended notice period.

    The person who is going on around the world trip could be considered as having a career break and could fall under a career break policy.
     
    Posted: Jan 26, 2019 By: soundengineeruk Member since: Jul 25, 2012
    #15
  16. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    There is never any question of an employer accepting or not accepting any notice period. The notice period in the contract is the MINIMUM that should be given.

    I realise that these forums are designed so that people can offer their opinion, but it is helpful if the opinion has at least a basis in reality.
     
    Posted: Jan 26, 2019 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #16
  17. obscure

    obscure UKBF Ace Free Member

    2,866 671
    Then leave it to those like Cyndy who are.
     
    Posted: Jan 26, 2019 By: obscure Member since: Jan 18, 2008
    #17
  18. soundengineeruk

    soundengineeruk UKBF Regular Free Member

    375 66
    The OP said at least 4 weeks must be given, the OP gave 6 weeks notice but the employer appears to revert to the minimum of 4 weeks, as I said do think they are legally obligated to accept 6 weeks notice.

    It is a community forum, people can provide an opinion on the topics raised.

    Is there anything the T&Cs of the community forum to where members cannot provide an opinion on different topics created?

    There are professional services available there people want to verify an opinion posted.

    Please if you feel my opinion on this topic has offended you or breaks the T&Cs of using this site, then just hit the Report this post link and refer it to the moderators of this site.
     
    Posted: Jan 26, 2019 By: soundengineeruk Member since: Jul 25, 2012
    #18
  19. SERC1204

    SERC1204 UKBF Contributor Free Member

    79 4
    But if in any situation the employer is telling the employee they must leave before the employee wishes (contractual period or not, notice given or not), the employer is effectively dismissing the employee. If there is a valid reason for dismissal, so be it, but having another job to go to is not a valid reason for dismissal. It’s no different to employer deciding on a whim to dismiss an employee and giving their contractual notice.

    Edit: BTW, no one has said you can’t have an opinion, it’s simply a case of an opinion won’t help the situation as it’s an issue of legality.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2019
    Posted: Jan 26, 2019 By: SERC1204 Member since: Apr 19, 2017
    #19
  20. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

    12,109 3,128
    The point that you miss entirely is there is no such thing as being legally obligated to accept 6 weeks notice. Giving notice is exactly that - notifying someone of your intention. It does not involve asking permission. It is not open to acceptance or rejection. It is a statement of intent.
     
    Posted: Jan 26, 2019 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #20