Please support the Boiler Scrappage scheme petition

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It looks like we have a £300 per boiler scrappage scheme to be announced in the Pre-budget Report tomorrow.

At the moment I am absolutely delighted, but I don't yet have any details of how they think it is going to work. As far as I am concerned, it must benefit small businesses and if it doesn't then the campaign goes on.

So, as of now, we have won - I think! :)

I thought its all about saving the planet?

So who cares if it doesn't benefit small businesses - so long as it saves the pandas?

I think its time my taxes were spent on a website scrappage scheme. That'll save lots of pandas.
 
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I thought its all about saving the planet?

So who cares if it doesn't benefit small businesses - so long as it saves the pandas?

I think its time my taxes were spent on a website scrappage scheme. That'll save lots of pandas.
I'm not going over the same tired, old arguments with you again. The environmental benefit is clear whoever does the work.

Small businesses will care and householders will care if they can't get competitive quotes.
 
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As far as I am concerned, it must benefit small businesses

It'll destroy small businesses. Yet another hand picking their - and their customers' - pockets.

Steve
 
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LicensedToTrade

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As a senior manager of another (much much larger Plumbers' Merchant) I will be interested in how exactly this boiler scrappage scheme could work. A lot of your argument has been based around the boiler manufacturers chipping in to help bring the cost down. You more than anyone Mick should appreciate how little profit there is to be made in selling boilers these days even with rebate. The manufacturers of boilers have increasingly tighter margins, so too do the merchants, the general public have been benefiting from intensely competitive pricing in the industry for the last decade. My contacts at Worcester, Vaillant and Baxi tell me they have no intention of making a sizeable contribution to the scheme, they simply can't afford to maintain it for any length of time. So most if not all of the money would be coming from the tax payer.
 
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LicensedToTrade

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Unless it's a DIY install the only people benefitting are the installers. When replacement installs are £2k plus, a hundred pound either way is no big cheese.

Labour costs will always be as they are, government scrappage scheme or not, this won't change will it? It can hardly be the manufacturers or merchants fault. What these competitive boilers prices have done is brought down the total cost of materials which will obviously impact the overall price for a boiler installation. As for your £100 either way, let me tell you that the relative price for boilers has dropped an awful lot more than that in the last ten years. If Mick tells you different then he is either lying or charging the earth for his boilers.
 
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As a senior manager of another (much much larger Plumbers' Merchant) I will be interested in how exactly this boiler scrappage scheme could work. A lot of your argument has been based around the boiler manufacturers chipping in to help bring the cost down. You more than anyone Mick should appreciate how little profit there is to be made in selling boilers these days even with rebate. The manufacturers of boilers have increasingly tighter margins, so too do the merchants, the general public have been benefiting from intensely competitive pricing in the industry for the last decade. My contacts at Worcester, Vaillant and Baxi tell me they have no intention of making a sizeable contribution to the scheme, they simply can't afford to maintain it for any length of time. So most if not all of the money would be coming from the tax payer.
A fair & valid question!

I have been saying that a Boiler Scrappage scheme would be miles better than the car scheme, particularly for the environment, ever since it was announced, in fact I blogged about it back in May. Mick's blog

Like many of us, I grumbled on & on, but did nothing else until I read an article quoting Carl Arntzen, the MD of Worcester, calling for a Boiler Scrappage scheme.
Carl believes that the key to the scheme should be a shared commitment between the Government and boiler manufacturers".
"There is an increasing recognition amongst manufacturers that we cannot ask the Government to provide all of the incentive for a scheme such as this, which would provide an enormous boost to the heating sector, whilst we take all of the potential financial upside".
"There needs to be a shared commitment to incentivisation".
In that same article, Carl says that previous discussions with the utility companies have indicated support in principle for a scrappage scheme for boilers.

You can read the full article here BuildingTalk

It was this article, and the fact that the government had already committed taxpayers cash to reduce CO2 emissions, that prompted me to get off my bum and do something about it. Shortly after that I created the petition asking for the government to talk to manufacturers.

I hope that clarifies my thinking about the potential funding for the scheme.
 
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Unless it's a DIY install the only people benefitting are the installers. When replacement installs are £2k plus, a hundred pound either way is no big cheese.
That's why it is really important that the scheme is not run by one large installation firm.

I have been saying from the start, that the householder should get the grant. This will enable them to get competitive quotes from Gas Safe registered installers, small and large, rather than a monopolistic scheme where prices could be inflated in the first place giving no saving to the householder.
 
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LicensedToTrade

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I appreciate that (and can I just say I do admire you for the work you have carried out to get to this stage) but without seeing figures of exactly how much money the manufacturers would be prepared to commit to I am dubious about their sincerety.
 
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Labour costs will always be as they are, government scrappage scheme or not, this won't change will it? It can hardly be the manufacturers or merchants fault. What these competitive boilers prices have done is brought down the total cost of materials which will obviously impact the overall price for a boiler installation. As for your £100 either way, let me tell you that the relative price for boilers has dropped an awful lot more than that in the last ten years. If Mick tells you different then he is either lying or charging the earth for his boilers.
Of course, you are absolutely correct - boiler prices are miles cheaper than they were even 20 years ago.

Competition is the key, which is why the labour/profit elements of a quote would be reasonable as long as Gas Safe installers know that they are in a competitive situation.
 
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dingbat

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Labour costs will always be as they are, government scrappage scheme or not, this won't change will it? It can hardly be the manufacturers or merchants fault. What these competitive boilers prices have done is brought down the total cost of materials which will obviously impact the overall price for a boiler installation. As for your £100 either way, let me tell you that the relative price for boilers has dropped an awful lot more than that in the last ten years. If Mick tells you different then he is either lying or charging the earth for his boilers.

I'm not disputing your figures on boiler costs.

When it comes to the exhorbitant charges by installers I believe it really makes no difference to the end customer. They look at the total cost. And how many installers are actually passing on any saving?
 
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G. Lasagne

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That's why it is really important that the scheme is not run by one large installation firm.

I have been saying from the start, that the householder should get the grant. This will enable them to get competitive quotes from Gas Safe registered installers, small and large, rather than a monopolistic scheme where prices could be inflated in the first place giving no saving to the householder.

Well done mick, good work:)

good end up like another eaga though, which would be only good for the bigger companies
 
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I appreciate that (and can I just say I do admire you for the work you have carried out to get to this stage) but without seeing figures of exactly how much money the manufacturers would be prepared to commit to I am dubious about their sincerety.
Me too!

As I may have said before, it was only Thursday last week that DECC sent me an email telling me that they were not considering a scrappage scheme and then we hear about Pre-budget Report including one on Sunday evening.

I am worried that they haven't even properly consulted anyone - they certainly haven't spoken to me, although my thoughts on the subject have been completely transparent from day one!

The Devil is in the detail - I fear my campaigning may have to continue :)
 
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Well done mick, good work:)

good end up like another eaga though, which would be only good for the bigger companies
Over my dead body!

If it doesn't benefit small business and allow competitive quotes it will not work, as far as I am concerned.

What makes it a good proposal is that it is of benefit in so many ways - remove some of those ie small business or savings for the householder and it fails.
 
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LicensedToTrade

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I'm not disputing your figures on boiler costs.

When it comes to the exhorbitant charges by installers I believe it really makes no difference to the end customer. They look at the total cost. And how many installers are actually passing on any saving?

Which is exactly why I am not convinced it is a workable scheme.
 
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