Please support the Boiler Scrappage scheme petition

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The whole reason capitalism works is because money finds its way to the best companies - they make money. Taking the money from them and giving it to companies that have shown they can lose money wont help the economy - it will destroy it.

I agree.

Money goes where value is added.

And, IMO, if companies want government money, part of the deal should be that these companies re-structure, re-price and innovate.

i.e. create enough value for their customers that, when the government money stops, their industries are sustainable.

Steve
 
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That was my point.

I'd be quite happy for the government to spend tax payers money subsidizing the internet industry. Of course I would - I'd get some of my taxes back!

If all of the arguments about replacing a boiler stack up (ie reduced energy costs) and the boiler manufacturers are happy to "chip in" then why involve the government?

Just get the boiler manufacturers to cut prices of boilers, and persuade the public that any money they invest they'll get back in reduced fuel costs. No need for anyone in government to do anything at all, apart from perhaps lending their vocal support to it.

The banks and construction industry had years of boom where they raked it in. And now we get the inevitable slow down that follows a boom based on ever increasing debt levels, and they are asking for the government to subsidize their products and services to help them out?

I think its quite appalling that successful companies like ours have money taken from them by the government, and this is then used to prop up failed companies like banks, and car manufacturers. The whole reason capitalism works is because money finds its way to the best companies - they make money. Taking the money from them and giving it to companies that have shown they can lose money wont help the economy - it will destroy it.

Here's an interesting environmental point... with all these inefficient boilers toiling away pumping CO2 into the atmosphere that is going to fuel global warming. It will be warmer! And that means.... we won't have to use our boilers so much, thereby helping us to hit the government's CO2 targets :) So save money on your future heating bills and help reduce future CO2 emissions by driving a Hummer and running your heating with the windows open.
I'm guessing that you have neither looked at the website nor read my previous posts so it is a bit pointless explaining it to you again.

As I have said previously, if you don't like the idea don't sign it....
 
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The whole reason capitalism works is because money finds its way to the best companies - they make money. Taking the money from them and giving it to companies that have shown they can lose money wont help the economy - it will destroy it.

I agree.

Money goes where value is added.

And, IMO, if companies want government money, part of the deal should be that these companies re-structure, re-price and innovate.

i.e. create enough value for their customers that, when the government money stops, their industries are sustainable.

Steve
I wouldn't disagree with your points, but I fail to see how they are relevant to the Boiler Scrappage campaign.
 
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As I have said previously, if you don't like the idea don't sign it....

Is there a place where, if I don't like it, I don't have to fund it? I'd be happy to sign that.

Steve
 
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Is there a place where, if I don't like it, I don't have to fund it? I'd be happy to sign that.

Steve
Just for you, Steve ;)

I think you will find that boiler manufacturers will chip in to the cost and remember, the government has already earmarked funds to reduce CO2 emissions in order to meet it's targets. I say use some of that money to help fund this scheme.

Read the website to learn more http://reheatbritain.org.uk
 
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I wouldn't disagree with your points, but I fail to see how they are relevant to the Boiler Scrappage campaign.

Well contrary to what you said I did read your website. It advocates a scheme similar to the car scrappage one.

That is one that uses GOVT MONEY (ie money taxed from people like me, and from businesses like mine that make money) to subsidize new cars for people who have enough money to buy a new car. It uses tax payers money to subsidize new cars for people who already have thousands of pounds to spend on a new car.

So a boiler scrappage scheme would use govt money to subsidize boilers, thereby filling your pockets of course.

But why not tax plumbers merchants and new boilers and then use the money raised to subsidize new websites - so I can fill my pockets too?

The car scrappage scheme uses money raised from profitable companies (ie tax revenue) to subsidize the products of those claiming they are having a hard time. It takes money from the successful to bail out the unsuccessful. Plumbers merchants did just fine when the banks were dishing out money like crazy and the housing market was booming. Had they been prudent they'd have put money away for a rainy day - as it was inevitable that the house price party would end and we'd have a severe recession. If a business didn't plan for that, then that is capitalism - they go bust and the ones who did plan right survivie.
 
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Plumbers merchants did just fine when the banks were dishing out money like crazy and the housing market was booming. Had they been prudent they'd have put money away for a rainy day - as it was inevitable that the house price party would end and we'd have a severe recession. If a business didn't plan for that, then that is capitalism - they go bust and the ones who did plan right survivie.

And, by propping up the unsuccessful companies, it's going to hurt those boiler installation companies that are competitive and well run.

(by bankrolling their competitors through tough times)

Steve
 
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I personally would rather that every penny past present and future that has been allocated to the car scrappage scheme could instead be spent on replacing boilers, central heating systems, water heating systems, insulation, domestic windmills, solar panels and every other form of energy saving and producing low level domestic project we can think off.

The car scrappage scheme does nothing for anyone in the UK. The dealers don't benefit, because the discount that they used to get from the manufacturer now goes direct to the customer. The only people really benefitting from the car scrappage scheme are those getting cheap new cars (and i don't want to pay for them), and the far eastern car industry (again, another group that i don't really give a stuff about).

But, UK energy usage and generation is going to be massive long term UK issue. And I can't understand why we're propping up korean car manufacturers as opposed to looking after UK households.

If we're going to spend money propping up the UK economy, lets at least do it by subsidising UK businesses for the benefit of UK residents.

Rant over :)
 
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Personally I wouldn't mind such an idea, as paying for new boilers, but like the car industry scheme, who is going to help?

Like the car industry scheme which is now helping to produce even more crap into the atmosphere, with all the new cars being built, just to say a few miles per gallon...!!

Whats the CO2 cost of a new boiler?

Even with a new boiler my victorian house would still be band F of the EPC (Bullsh*t - that's a technical term)...as I refuse to get plastic windows.

The reason my house is rot free is because it has drafts!!!

When will do gooders at the energy saving committee/council/what they are called, get of their bums and go learn about property!!!

Digreesion and rant over.

spend the money on tax cuts :)
 
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Love the idea..... did i mention I was a landlord with quite a few properties and could do with a boiler replacement or two :)

Ok on a more professional/objective note it does seem to be bailing out a lot of companies who do not deserve it. But they've already done it to the car companies so i guess we should continue the party.... that's until we're all broke from paying too much taxes - then who will they turn to for money?

In all seriousness don't think it's a good idea unless they get the companies who benefit to chip in - so for example a regulated price of instillation. Also I thought you had to be a registered 'gas man/woman' to fit a boiler. Now whilst I'm not mystic meg I'd think that other industries have a far higher unemployment rate than this one. Who's up for saving the 'pizza delivery boy'?
 
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Wow!

In all seriousness don't think it's a good idea unless they get the companies who benefit to chip in - so for example a regulated price of instillation. Also I thought you had to be a registered 'gas man/woman' to fit a boiler. Now whilst I'm not mystic meg I'd think that other industries have a far higher unemployment rate than this one. Who's up for saving the 'pizza delivery boy'?
You're right, it must be a GasSafe registered installer. My take is that the householder would be able to get quotes in the normal way from any GasSafe installer, thereby ensuring that competitiveness is retained.

Construction is and has been one of the hardest hit sectors during this recession and is likely to be one of the last to recover.

So a boiler scrappage scheme would use govt money to subsidize boilers, thereby filling your pockets of course.

I originally thought that replacing old inefficient boilers through a scrappage scheme would be much better for the environment than the car scheme and in the end I did something about it.

If you actually check out the website, you will see that the biggest supporters of the campaign are environmentalists - why? because it will be really good for the environment, use less energy and reduce NOx!!

I think you will find that boiler manufacturers will chip in to the cost and remember, the government has already earmarked funds to reduce CO2 emissions in order to meet it's targets. I say use some of that money to help fund this scheme.

Read the website to learn more http://reheatbritain.org.uk

It really was the massive environmental advantage over the car scheme that made me get off my bum and do something.

If there is a positive side effect to help create work for a section of the construction industry, then it can only be another good thing.

In terms of boiler sales in the UK, my business is minute and any extra profit that my business would make has already been negated by the cost of promoting the campaign. If I was only doing it to feather my own nest, I have failed, big time! :)

The government has already committed to CO2 reduction targets at a cost to the taxpayer. I say again that using some of that committed money to fund this scheme would be very good value. ie no new taxpayer's money.

Every employee that loses his job is a double whammy to the government coffers - he doesn't pay income tax and he takes more benefits....
 
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Why not scrap cows? ...CO2 is nothing to the damage that Methane is doing...CO2 is nothing more than a wolly liberals idea of helping the planet!!

An equally simple solution would be to remove the subsidies on meat. That would cut tax and reduce the huge environmental cost of the meat industry.

But, it would be a massive vote loser.

Politicians would rather look like they're doing something "green" (even if it makes very little real difference) than doing something unpopular that would have a great benefit.

Steve

PS All this typing has made me peckish. Off to have a bacon sarnie...
 
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G. Lasagne

Free Member
Mar 12, 2008
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I signed this petition ages ago via twitter.
It is a good idea for most businesses in my industry.
I think you will get some objections from the government because of the warmfront scheme which is in place to achieve the same things that this scheme is. There are 2 warmfront schemes, 1 is a £300 rebate scheme available to all gas safe engineers and another is £2700(think its went up) grant available to a few selected comapnies, some of which are owned by the government (SCAM).
So i imagine the argument will be that the gov't is already doing there bit on this issue.
But from a selfish perspective i think its a top idea:).
Furthermore whoever told you that it would take 300 years to get your money back from a HE boiler is either mad or a cowboy.
New boilers are as efficient as 91% meaning that for every pound you spend only 9 pence is wasted. You old bosch will be between 65-80% meaning that you are wasting 20-25p from every pound.
Also as far as using the same amount of gas thats rubbish as well.
Thermostatic controls however in my opinion are just as effective as saving money as a new boiler as they reduce the amount of unneccessary usage massively if used properly.

I do think tax payers money could be better spent in other areas, but like i say as a business in the heating industry, im all for it.
 
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