Please support the Boiler Scrappage scheme petition

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I have recently started a petition on the number10 website calling for a Boiler Scrappage scheme which is similar to the Car Scrappage scheme, but aiming to replace old, extremely inefficient boilers with modern efficient condensing boilers.

This scheme will be extremely good for the environment, help the heating industry and save householders cash on their gas bills. Win, win,win!!

You can read more about the campaign here http://reheatbritain.org.uk and, if you think that it is a good idea, there is a link to the petition where you can sign.

We are starting to get a lot of industry support and a lot of Green support, but I would love to get some support from people unconnected with the heating industry.

If you really, really love the idea, there is an email address on the contacts page for you to send your supporting comments for inclusion on the website.

Thanks for taking the trouble to read this and I hope you are all coping well with the recession.
 
That would do a lot more good for the UK economy than the car scheme, which just seems to be supporting the Far east manufacturers (like they need the help ??!!).

Personally, as someone that used to live in a gradeB listed house in a special conservation area, it would be brilliant if the local councils decided that energy efficient products such as double glazing, small windmills etc didn't all require planning permission.
 
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That would do a lot more good for the UK economy than the car scheme, which just seems to be supporting the Far east manufacturers (like they need the help ??!!).

It would and it would do more for the environment too, as all new boilers are low nox compared to old. There is much talk about reducing carbon dioxide emissions, but places like London would benefit hugely by reducing air pollutants.

I haven't actually seen it yet, but I am told that Mayor Boris Johnson mentioned the Scrappage scheme this week in relation to his Air Quality Strategy which is due to be published later this month.
 
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This scheme will be extremely good for the environment, help the heating industry and save householders cash on their gas bills. Win, win,win!!

The scheme would strip money out of the pockets of every tax payer - by force of law - and give it to homeowners.

Did I miss a meeting? Did we decide that homeowners are now "the poor"? Is this some sort of modern day version of Robin Hood?

Steve
 
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The scheme would strip money out of the pockets of every tax payer - by force of law - and give it to homeowners.

Did I miss a meeting? Did we decide that homeowners are now "the poor"? Is this some sort of modern day version of Robin Hood?

Steve
Previous schemes to encourage the use of condensing boilers were funded by some of the Energy companies - I suspect that would happen again. I also think that boiler manufacturers would help fund it as car manufacturers did for their scheme.

Also, don't forget that creating demand in the heating sector would help stop redundancies. Every unemployed person creates a double whammy effect for the economy - less tax take and more benefits paid.

The government has already earmarked a large amount of money for green initiatives - I want to steer some of it into this scheme.
 
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All I'm asking for is that they talk to boiler manufacturers - it doesn't have to cost a lot of new money from the taxpayer....

yeah but we all know how the government likes to waste money, this is perfect for another quango. the 'Boiler Renewal and Intervention Committee' comprising former MPs and randoms who we've never heard of.

its a good idea though, i'm all for it in principle, however i'm not sure i want to see more increase on my taxes to pay for other people when my boiler was fitted 2 years ago and was top of the range.
 
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Also, don't forget that creating demand in the heating sector would help stop redundancies. Every unemployed person creates a double whammy effect for the economy - less tax take and more benefits paid.

Except it isn't.

What you're describing is alchemy and alchemy doesn't exist.

The money the government would take out of my pocket is money I would have have spent elsewhere. So, all they're really doing is transferring money from the businesses I would choose to spend it with to heating companies.*

(and to homeowners who haven't bothered updating their boilers)

So, instead of heating companies being forced to restructure and become more efficient (and lowering their hourly rates to something more in line with average earnings), viable businesses will have to lay people off.

IMO, that makes it a very inefficient - and unworthy - use of people's money.



Steve

* Or, if they delay the increase in tax, they're robbing tomorrow to pay for today.
 
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Except it isn't.

What you're describing is alchemy and alchemy doesn't exist.

The money the government would take out of my pocket is money I would have have spent elsewhere. So, all they're really doing is transferring money from the businesses I would choose to spend it with to heating companies.*

(and to homeowners who haven't bothered updating their boilers)

So, instead of heating companies being forced to restructure and become more efficient (and lowering their hourly rates to something more in line with average earnings), viable businesses will have to lay people off.

IMO, that makes it a very inefficient - and unworthy - use of people's money.



Steve

* Or, if they delay the increase in tax, they're robbing tomorrow to pay for today.
Hang on, Steve.

All I said in that last post was that every new unemployed person hits the economy in two ways:
1. They don't pay income tax into the coffers
2. They are likely to be on benefits

That was what I meant about a double whammy!

If you think the scheme is a crap idea, then don't sign it, but please don't read more into what I say, when I am trying to honestly answer concerns.
 
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sirearl

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Apr 23, 2007
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Interesting thing my central heating guy told me not to replace my quality bosch boiler on the grounds that it would take 300 years to recover the cost of installation and that the quality of modern boilers is crap.?

He also said it takes X amount of gas to heat x amount of water no matter what.?

Earl
 
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The posts here assume that everyone is moving from fairly new gas boiler to new gas boiler. Thing is, huge parts of the UK are still on crappy old solid fuel back boilers, that only heat water whilst the householder is chucking on several tons of coal. The savings in the case can be made in a couple of years.

Personally, I go back to the idea that all green and energy efficient changes (within reasonable limits) don't require planning permission. In my old house, double glazing that complied with the councils requirements (hand inserted into refurbished original frames) literally doubled the cost. Did I do it, did I heck, and the local glazier lost out, and we heated up the sky for a few months with our expensive oil boiler.
 
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yeah but we all know how the government likes to waste money, this is perfect for another quango. the 'Boiler Renewal and Intervention Committee' comprising former MPs and randoms who we've never heard of.

its a good idea though, i'm all for it in principle, however i'm not sure i want to see more increase on my taxes to pay for other people when my boiler was fitted 2 years ago and was top of the range.

Thanks, Esk!

I hope it's not like that. I'm a pretty ordinary sensible sort of guy and I'll stir the whatsit like mad if it looks like it is going that way.

I don't think it needs an increase in taxes, because the government has made reduction targets that they have already earmarked some of our taxes for. I just think that this will be a natural for some of those funds and I also think that funds can be sourced from elsewhere that doesn't cost the taxpayer.
 
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Interesting thing my central heating guy told me not to replace my quality bosch boiler on the grounds that it would take 300 years to recover the cost of installation and that the quality of modern boilers is crap.?

He also said it takes X amount of gas to heat x amount of water no matter what.?

Earl
I wouldn't dream of knocking your quality Worcester Bosch boiler, but i would hazard a guess that you could recover your costs in a little less than 300 years ;)

On the question of amount of gas to heat water, that isn't the case - it depends on the efficiency of the boiler. The more efficient the boiler, the less gas is used to heat the same amount of water.

Anyway, please sign the petition anyway, cos it's a jolly good idea! :)
 
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sirearl

Free Member
Apr 23, 2007
29,784
6,630
Kent
I wouldn't dream of knocking your quality Worcester Bosch boiler, but i would hazard a guess that you could recover your costs in a little less than 300 years ;)

On the question of amount of gas to heat water, that isn't the case - it depends on the efficiency of the boiler. The more efficient the boiler, the less gas is used to heat the same amount of water.

At my age it better be less than 300 years.:eek:

so the thinner the metal seperating the gas from the water the better.?

Or am I mising sommething.?

bit like cars are they really more economical than 40 years ago.?

I suspect its more to do with the types of roads we use that allow higher gearing and constant speeds..:)

Earl
 
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At my age it better be less than 300 years.:eek:

so the thinner the metal seperating the gas from the water the better.?

Or am I mising sommething.?

Earl
:D I know what you mean, I'm probably older than you!!

No, it's more about modern condensing boilers re-using some of the flue gasses to put more heat into the water.

For example, an old gas back-boiler still in use is likely to be rated at less than 70% efficient, although in reality, it may be miles less efficient than that
depending on condition and service history. Compare that with a new Band A condensing boiler which will be at least 90% efficient.

The Energy Saving Trust estimate that the saving for an average household could be about £250 per year.
 
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Hang on, Steve.

All I said in that last post was that every new unemployed person hits the economy in two ways:
1. They don't pay income tax into the coffers
2. They are likely to be on benefits

That was what I meant about a double whammy!

If you think the scheme is a crap idea, then don't sign it, but please don't read more into what I say, when I am trying to honestly answer concerns.

Well, if you are right, then why doesn't the government just "buy" jobs for everyone that's unemployed?

The answer is simple: it's because it doesn't work like that.

If it was the difference between paying a gas fitter £1,000 a month on the dole (in various benefits) v paying him £15,000 a year to upgrade boilers, then you might have a decent proposition.

But, I'd bet it's not £15,000 a year. Probably more like £30,000.

And, in that case, it's a waste of money. The government would be far better off creating 2 jobs at £15,000 each.

Simple arithmetic.

Steve
 
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