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Notice period not served - deduction from wages

Discussion in 'Employment & HR' started by Josh2018, Mar 5, 2018.

  1. Josh2018

    Josh2018 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    6 0
    One of my part time employees left after a month without serving his contractual four week's notice. This is a low paid job in a bakery but due to the skills required it takes a few weeks to train someone to do the job. The contract stipulates that:

    If you terminate your employment without giving your contractual period of notice the Company reserves the right to make a deduction from your final pay equal to the amount which would have been paid in salary during the appropriate notice period. (This
    includes any amount due from accrued holiday pay not yet taken).

    I want to deduct the money for notice period not served from his final pay meaning he will receive nothing for the two weeks he worked. Does anyone have experience with enforcing such clauses and is there anything I should be aware of before I make deductions.

    Thank you in advance

    Josh
     
    Posted: Mar 5, 2018 By: Josh2018 Member since: Mar 5, 2018
    #1
  2. paulears

    paulears UKBF Big Shot Full Member

    3,379 801
    He had a low paid job, and you got him for two weeks for free? Wow. Do you know how dreadful an employer that makes you sound?
     
    Posted: Mar 5, 2018 By: paulears Member since: Jan 7, 2015
    #2
  3. Josh2018

    Josh2018 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    6 0
    He is a 17 years old employee with no previous experience. His pay, while low, was above the minimum wage for his age group group. His training took two weeks. How dreadfull employee it makes him to walk out of a job just like that?
     
    Posted: Mar 5, 2018 By: Josh2018 Member since: Mar 5, 2018
    #3
  4. Toby Willows

    Toby Willows UKBF Regular Free Member

    760 164
    You pay him for the two weeks worked. How bloody tight are you? Looks like he had a lucky escape.
     
    Posted: Mar 5, 2018 By: Toby Willows Member since: Jun 20, 2016
    #4
  5. Chris Ashdown

    Chris Ashdown UKBF Legend Free Member

    9,240 1,877
    By law you must pay him for days worked Otherwise be charged with breaking minimum wage law with big fine

    Notice period is a separate issue

    Holiday pay is a must however small it is
     
    Posted: Mar 5, 2018 By: Chris Ashdown Member since: Dec 7, 2003
    #5
  6. GraemeL

    GraemeL Pain in the neck? Full Member - Verified Business

    4,899 1,046
    I don't think this is legal - while I understand the sentiment behind it. It depends on whether or not you incur additional costs and have included that in their contract.

    Acas say (Note highlighted words):-

    Do I have to pay an employee their wages when they resigned without working their notice period?

    If your employee leaves without working their notice or getting your agreement to not work their notice, they may be in breach of their contract. As a first step, you should try to contact the employee to find out why they are refusing to work their notice and to see if they are willing to reconsider their decision. This may mean that you resolve a potential problem informally and quickly before it escalates and leads to legal action.

    If they still refuse to work their notice and you incur additional costs, such as agency costs to find a temporary replacement, you could try to reclaim the money from them by making a civil court claim against them. This can often be more costly to you than the value of the losses you incur.

    Your employee is not entitled to be paid for their notice period if they refuse to work it. However, they are usually still entitled to any outstanding pay for work already done and any outstanding holiday pay.

    You can only withhold all or part of their final wage if there is a clear contractual right to do so. Some employers include a clause in their employees' contracts which permits deductions to be made from an employee's final wage if they refuse to work their notice and the employer incurs losses or additional costs as a result.

    This is only relevant if your employee simply refuses to work their notice period. If they are absent because of a legitimate reason, such as sickness (and your notice periods are the same as the statutory notice period), they will still be entitled to their normal pay during their notice, and deductions for any costs you incur must not be made.
     
    Posted: Mar 5, 2018 By: GraemeL Member since: Sep 7, 2011
    #6
  7. Josh2018

    Josh2018 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    6 0
    I am now wondering whether there is a point including such a provision in a contract at all if I still need to pay them.

    It is not about money, but the time we wasted training him and while as an employer I have so many obligations, employees can brake contracts at their whim with no consequences whatsoever.
     
    Posted: Mar 5, 2018 By: Josh2018 Member since: Mar 5, 2018
    #7
  8. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

    7,454 777
    Indeed employees can mess you about. The ones that do simply never employ again.
    You'll always have people that you waste time training. They don't stay then move on to the next one. Eventually you get people who do stay.
     
    Posted: Mar 5, 2018 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
    #8
  9. paulears

    paulears UKBF Big Shot Full Member

    3,379 801
    Oh come on! if you could train him in two weeks then that's hardly expensive intensive training for a young person on low pay - which for the under 20s is pretty terrible - and indicative of bottom of the pyramid workers. Workers of this type can never be expected to show dedication and the job is simply a job. This means you will go through numerous staff as they get the chance of a better job, meaning the retraining is just part of how it has to be with your type of employment. If they were ill, or got pregnant you'd still have retraining to do. There is NO point in trying to instigate punitive clauses in employment contracts with entry level staff. Management and above need some thought, but for hourly paid general staff - being a good boss of a good firm encourages them to stay, not legal measures and threats. Employers have obligations because the responsibilities work downwards, not upwards. If you pee the staff off, they leave. Those that stay see your attitude to people leaving and will judge you on how well or not you treat them, because if they leave, you'll do it to them too. If it's not about money - then pay them what you owe them, wish them good luck and then look at your business and how you treat your staff as valued. People leave for better conditions and progression prospects and/or better money. You're in control of that.
     
    Posted: Mar 5, 2018 By: paulears Member since: Jan 7, 2015
    #9
  10. Chris Ashdown

    Chris Ashdown UKBF Legend Free Member

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    I would take a bet you were trained by someone else and then left to use those skills without thinking about your old employer, most of the world works that way
     
    Posted: Mar 5, 2018 By: Chris Ashdown Member since: Dec 7, 2003
    #10
  11. DontAsk

    DontAsk UKBF Enthusiast Free Member

    845 112
    I don't think you understand.

    You must pay him for what he worked: He resigns. If he works his 4 weeks notice he gets paid for those 4 weeks. If he leaves after a week he gets paid for a week. You can't then deduct the the three weeks again form what he has already worked.

    You are not losing out.

    So sue him for breach of contract. Create a working environment that people do not want to leave.
     
    Posted: Mar 5, 2018 By: DontAsk Member since: Jan 7, 2015
    #11
  12. Josh2018

    Josh2018 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    6 0
    Thank you to all for their helpfull comments.
     
    Posted: Mar 5, 2018 By: Josh2018 Member since: Mar 5, 2018
    #12