New Job Offer

Discussion in 'Employment & HR' started by Definition This, Jul 6, 2021.

  1. Definition This

    Definition This UKBF Newcomer

    4 6
    Hi All

    I've been offered a very good job with a large hotel chain. I went for the interview and was offered the job then and there, as I had all the requirements they were looking for (experience and qualifications) and they sent me a contract over the same day.

    The wage they are offering is an annual salary, which is a nice sum, but if I work it out per hour, I get a similar salary to my current job, which is circa £10 per hour. In my current job (which is retail), I get sociable hours, no hassle, just clock in and just clock out, but I don't get the hours with the current job - it's about half of what the potential new job are offering.

    The potential new job hours are 46 hours a week over 5 days, with "reasonable overtime" expected, but without pay. They don't say how often overtime is going to be and what is reasonable. As the offer stands, I could not accept that. Also, would I be right or wrong in saying that if I do too much overtime without pay on a salaried position, I would be below the minimum wage?

    I've said I would like to go for 2 trial shifts before I agree to the job (I've not accepted it), which they agreed to without objection. But I spoke to my dad, he said that I shouldn't even bother do the trials and decline their job offer, citing the money and the hours. If it was something like 37 hours a week over 4 days, with a maximum of 4 hours a month of overtime without pay, with the same annual salary, I could agree to it.


    My question is, should I negotiate before or after the trial?

    Your thoughts would be appreciated.

    Thank you.
     
    Posted: Jul 6, 2021 By: Definition This Member since: Mar 17, 2021
    #1
  2. Opinion87

    Opinion87 Contributor

    706 247
    You're expected to work "reasonable" overtime without being paid for it?

    I'll wait for the vultures...
     
    Posted: Jul 6, 2021 By: Opinion87 Member since: Jul 1, 2015
    #2
  3. intheTRADE

    intheTRADE Contributor

    502 183
    The wording 'reasonable overtime without being paid for it' may as well translate to 'we'll take you for a mug'
     
    Posted: Jul 6, 2021 By: intheTRADE Member since: Apr 14, 2019
    #3
  4. Ian J

    Ian J Factoring Specialist Verified Business ✔️
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    What is the potential for the future like in both your existing job and the one offered to you?
     
    Posted: Jul 7, 2021 By: Ian J Member since: Nov 6, 2004
    #4
  5. John Hemming

    John Hemming Full Member
    Contributor

    852 188
    The question with overtime is whether they expect not to pay you by the hour for it at all (which would I think could be illegal depending upon how many hours and the minimum wage) or whether they are saying they won't pay a higher hourly rate for it.

    They would be taking a chance not paying the minimum wage. If you did take the job you should record for your own purposes how many hours you work and you would be in a position to get any payments under the minimum wage back from them. I think it is HMRC that do the regulatory work here.

    There are always questions with jobs as to whether it helps to take a job which is not ideal because it puts you in a place to get experience to get a better job. Only you can really judge this.
     
    Posted: Jul 7, 2021 By: John Hemming Member since: May 23, 2019
    #5
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  6. WaveJumper

    WaveJumper Contributor

    2,044 517
    Listen to your Dad Hotel work is crazy hard and long hours I would say even worse than retail. You are obviously looking for a change I guess with better prospects, sit down and talk to your current employer about the future and where you can progress too would not hurt and you might be surprised
     
    Posted: Jul 7, 2021 By: WaveJumper Member since: Aug 26, 2013
    #6
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  7. The Byre

    The Byre Full Member
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    The secret to successful negotiations is always preparation. So, now is the time to -
    • Find out what others are getting in similar positions and what sort of sign-up bonus they are being offered.
    • What your current employer will offer you by way of promotion and better pay.
    • What other conditions the hotel business usually offers to those accepting your hoped-for position.
    • What guarantees the hotel company will offer for pay to keep up with inflation.
    • Get a copy of the contract and have it looked at by someone who understands employment contracts and the hotel game.
    • Find out just how desperate they are to fill the position by looking at all their 'sits-vac' ads across the whole chain.
    • Investigate the company and those who own it. (Due diligence is not just for business owners doing deals!)
    When you have done all that THEN you can talk to them about a possible better offer. £10 an hour really does not sound like enough in the present economic and employment climate! It is £2 less than what I was paying casual labour about fifteen years ago.
     
    Posted: Jul 7, 2021 By: The Byre Member since: Aug 13, 2013
    #7
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  8. fisicx

    fisicx Moderator
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    That means early starts and late finishing every weekend. They offered you the job because they are desperate to fill the position not because you came out top of the applicants.
     
    Posted: Jul 7, 2021 By: fisicx Member since: Sep 12, 2006
    #8
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  9. DontAsk

    DontAsk Contributor

    2,141 360
    Staying up until the last guest goes to bed, then washing up, then, ... I would stay in the current job and try and get more hours.
     
    Posted: Jul 7, 2021 By: DontAsk Member since: Jan 7, 2015
    #9
  10. MS Solutions Training

    MS Solutions Training UKBF Newcomer

    4 2
    Dare i say it, but sometimes the money is not the most important part. It might be for instance that it gives a lifestyle that you prefer over your current job and that far outweighs an reduction in a like for like wage.

    If that's not the case, but you are still interested, then trial shift(s) first so that you can make a more informed decision on what you are prepared to accept, compromise on or negotiate
     
    Posted: Jul 7, 2021 By: MS Solutions Training Member since: Jul 2, 2021
    #10
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  11. MBE2017

    MBE2017 Contributor

    2,462 981
    Two points, personally I would never work for free, overtime is fine if compensated, such as double time etc. How would you feel if expected to work 10 hours extra per week? Or even 20 hours?

    Secondly, where a company offers a job straight away, they tend to be very menial roles where they are desperate to fill the position, so don’t expect it to be a potentially good job or career.

    The hospitality industry tends to be poorly rewarded with long hours.
     
    Posted: Jul 7, 2021 By: MBE2017 Member since: Feb 16, 2017
    #11
  12. Definition This

    Definition This UKBF Newcomer

    4 6
    Hi All

    Sorry about not replying sooner, I've been really busy with my current job, which is good!

    So I went for a couple of small trial shifts to see what it was like. It wasn't too bad. However, they were seriously understaffed, especially on the bar - they are/were struggling for staff. One of the days I went was on a weekend, and they needed 3 people for the bar, but only had 1 person.

    After the trials, I contacted management saying I would be delighted in working there, but I had some concerns about the contract. I politely laid out my concerns, such as:

    The amount of hours, and hours of work required to work are quite excessive for the amount of money being offered. Hourly wage works out to be £10.12 an hour. My current job pays very similar to this, more when other bonuses are applied and we will receive an above inflation pay increase this year.

    I was concerned that excessive overtime will bring me down below the minimum wage requirement. Junior members of staff on hourly rates, could earn more than myself on an hourly basis, if overtime is required.

    My current job has very social hours. ​

    Their response was "After feedback, we decided that the role is not right for you and the offer is withdrawn". I just politely thanked them for the chance, and gave credit to the staff I worked with - Being nice and all. I thought the withdrawal was quite weird as the F&B manager said to me after the trial that if I wanted the job, it was mine. I don't know, it could have been platitudes, it could have just been they changed their mind.


    Here were my thoughts about the trial:

    The first trial shift was good, it was quiet, so there was plenty of time to show me everything and for me to do many of the tasks, I tried to be proactive as much as possible, such as me inputting things into the till, making drinks, etc. The trial was about 3 hours long.

    The second trial, was a weekend, it was simply chaotic, not enough bar staff to do everything, and show me everything. The person I was assigned to basically said that sorry, I can't show you anything, or help you, because we're so busy and it's just slowing everything down. In fact, they were pretty surprised I was assigned to them on a weekend. I totally got that. However, I tried to be proactive and be the 'barback', clean glasses/tables, make drinks that I heard being ordered, sometimes I was reactive (being told what to do, take orders, rather than just standing around observing, or barbacking), but I did try to be proactive as much as I could, such as making sure they had clean glasses! I got a few drink orders wrong, sometimes I had no idea what drinks were being ordered, or where they were located. I felt on the second shift, that I was actually hindering service than helping service. If I had gone for a second shift on a quiet day, it probably would have gone a lot better. I think they put me on the weekend to throw me into the deep end to see if I would sink, swim, or tread. This was also 3 hours long.

    But, I don't know, maybe both sides were not going to be a fit for each other, which I can understand, which really is the most important thing.

    At the end of the day, it's not end of the world, if it's not meant to be, then it's not meant to be.

    Thanks for your help in the matter.
     
    Posted: Jul 28, 2021 By: Definition This Member since: Mar 17, 2021
    #12
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  13. WaveJumper

    WaveJumper Contributor

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    Well worth having the trial then, it's a shame it never lived up to exspectations but good to have the feedback on UKBF. Wishing all the best for the future
     
    Posted: Jul 28, 2021 By: WaveJumper Member since: Aug 26, 2013
    #13
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  14. Newchodge

    Newchodge Contributor

    15,871 4,466
    Sounds like you made a good decision, based on sensible considerations. Well done.
     
    Posted: Jul 28, 2021 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #14
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  15. Jan Pawlowski

    Jan Pawlowski UKBF Newcomer

    1 0
    I'm sure it wasn't the last good offer, sometimes it's better to wait and get the best
     
    Posted: Jul 29, 2021 By: Jan Pawlowski Member since: Mar 17, 2021
    #15