My 6-month contract ended 3 days in!

[Claire Freshney]

Hi everyone,

My 6 month contract has ended, 3-days in. This was an outside IR35 contract, therefore a B2B relationship.

My contract was directly with the recruitment agency.

The issue was I let them know that I struggled for childcare on fridays (I did tell the recruiter this before i signed the contract). I also told them I could try and get childcare but it would be after christmas, so fridays wouldn't be an issue.

They also said they wanted someone there 9-5pm to work same hours as their employees. This confused me as I said my contract is outside IR35 and sometimes I start work super early/work late. However, i did let the end client know, if i was needed and couldn't be there i could send in cover (subsitute).

The end client didn't like any of this, and wanted contractors to work same hours as her employees, so the recruiter terminated my 6 month contract.

This may be a commercial dispute, but surely you can't get me to sign a contract that says OUTSIDE IR35 and then tell me you don't like this once i've started! Can I claim compensation? The value of this 6-month contract was just short of £80,000 and they have just dropped me, for what feels like no real legitimate reason?

 

[fisicx]

The company wanted someone to work standard hours. You couldn’t do this so they didn’t want you. Your complaint is with the recruiter not the company. Everything boils down to the exact wording on the contract. I doubt very much you will get compensation.

 

[Claire Freshney]

The company wanted someone to work standard hours. You couldn’t do this so they didn’t want you. Your complaint is with the recruiter not the company. Everything boils down to the exact wording on the contract. I doubt very much you will get compensation.

My contract doesn't state specific hours and I am allowed to send in a substitute/cover. So there is no issue. 100% my problem is with the recruitment agency.

 

[Deleted member 335660]

My contract doesn't state specific hours and I am allowed to send in a substitute/cover. So there is no issue. 100% my problem is with the recruitment agency.

Hi Claire, what does the contract say about termination of a contract? Also was the contract based on working at this particular company?

 

[fisicx]

Still doesn’t mean you will get any compensation. Is there a clause about working as required by the company?

 

[Claire Freshney]

Still doesn’t mean you will get any compensation. Is there a clause about working as required by the company?

no. I also have whatsapp messages where I told the recruitment agency that i require flexibility with working and this was before I signed my contract with them, they were fully aware and also knew about childcare situation. Having said that, I did say I could sort the childcare and I never once said I wouldn't work 9-5. I was just telling them my preference and within my contract it says i can send a substitute.

 

[Claire Freshney]

Hi Claire, what does the contract say about termination of a contract? Also was the contract based on working at this particular company?

There are 6 clauses and there is no clause where they can just terminate because of this reason (my contract is with the recruitment agency).

 

[WaveJumper]

Forget WhatsApp as above what did your actual contract say about termination

 

[Claire Freshney]

Forget WhatsApp as above what did your actual contract say about termination

In my contract as mentioned above, there is no clause that allows them to terminate. TBH i'm not sure what they would be terminating, as I never said I wouldn't work monday - friday i said it was my preference. I made a suggestion that I could send a sub if needed.

They didn't want to even discuss/compromise, or come to a solution they just were cut throat and terminated.

 

[fisicx]

What you said you would work is different to the needs of the company. If the recruiters didn’t pass on your working schedule to the company they have failed to do their job properly.

That being said, if you want compensation you will have to take legal action. Which means the only winners will be the lawyers.

 

[simon field]

For a low-cost indication of what their intentions are, use moneyclaim online.

But first send them documentation setting out your case (by recorded post), give them a chance to respond, and if unsatisfactory then send a letter before action followed by your claim.

Good luck!

 

[IanSuth]

Before you do that - let me know if the recruitment agency is a member of either the REC or ATSCO as both have dispute mechanism. Also what was written in the statement of particulars you were given regarding the contract.

If you want private message them to me - a lot of agencies are still just doing what the end user client says even though that may not truly be IR35 compliant. Just writing i on an advert and in a contract does not make it the case, if the role wasnt actually outside IR35 you might have some day 1 employment rights. I can't see them getting you £80k but they may get you something like a weeks notice.

 

[Claire Freshney]

Before you do that - let me know if the recruitment agency is a member of either the REC or ATSCO as both have dispute mechanism. Also what was written in the statement of particulars you were given regarding the contract.

If you want private message them to me - a lot of agencies are still just doing what the end user client says even though that may not truly be IR35 compliant. Just writing i on an advert and in a contract does not make it the case, if the role wasnt actually outside IR35 you might have some day 1 employment rights. I can't see them getting you £80k but they may get you something like a weeks notice.

Thank you I will DM you, do you know how I do that, I couldn't see from your profile (sorry novice here!)

 

[mattk]

The flip side of the above is that if you want to get regular work as a day rate contractor you're better off just putting this down to experience and moving on. There are tonnes of roles out there and you don't want to get yourself a reputation for a short term gain.

As for Outside IR35 - in the olden days, when as a DRC you chose your own employment status, you still had to work where and when the client dictated. It didn't give you carte blanche to decide your own hours and location.

 

[Claire Freshney]

The flip side of the above is that if you want to get regular work as a day rate contractor you're better off just putting this down to experience and moving on. There are tonnes of roles out there and you don't want to get yourself a reputation for a short term gain.

As for Outside IR35 - in the olden days, when as a DRC you chose your own employment status, you still had to work where and when the client dictated. It didn't give you carte blanche to decide your own hours and location.

I don't think I can get a bad reputation for doing nothing wrong? I will get more work, that's not my issue (I get about 10 calls a day about jobs!) and don't mean to toot my horn but I'm quite well known in my space already... this is out of sheer principle and after 10yrs of working as a contractor and dealing with recruiters who treat you poorly I am going to do something about this.

The issue I have is it is not clear why I have been terminated.

 

[fisicx]

The issue I have is it is not clear why I have been terminated.

It’s because you were not able to work the hours required by the client.

 

[Claire Freshney]

It’s because you were not able to work the hours required by the client.

I didn't say I couldn't work within the hours. I shared my preference and also said that I could send in cover if I couldn't make something.

So there was no issue? So what was there reason?

 

[fisicx]

I didn't say I couldn't work within the hours. I shared my preference and also said that I could send in cover if I couldn't make something.

They don’t want cover. They wanted YOU to work 9-5 Monday to Friday. That was the requirement. If you couldn’t do this the terms of their contract with the recruiter was breached.

 

[Claire Freshney]

They don’t want cover. They wanted YOU to work 9-5 Monday to Friday. That was the requirement. If you couldn’t do this the terms of their contract with the recruiter was breached.

I understand, seems the recruiter and the client have had a major miscommunication (not my fault), but the recruiter can't terminate my contract because they have messed up? Surely?

 

[IanSuth]

i have read her contract and it says hours can be varied by mutual agreement - so it comes down to whether there was agreement up front

But there is a "if it is terminated no liability" clause which was signed

 

[fisicx]

I understand, seems the recruiter and the client have had a major miscommunication (not my fault), but the recruiter can't terminate my contract because they have messed up? Surely?

Yes they can. Your complaint is the legality of that termination. Which is where the lawyers start racking up the fees.

 

[Paul Norman]

The reason for the termination is clear.

The agency failed to understand the needs of their client. You were the wrong person for that role.

The agency can't afford to keep you on their books if they are getting no revenue for you.

The end customer were within their rights to end the arrangement.

Whether or not the agency were within their rights to end their arrangement with you depends on the fine print of the contract you and them. To answer your question we would need to read that fine print.

I would ask them to refer you to the clause they are relying on, and see what happens next.

 

[Claire Freshney]

Clause 16.1 says they are not liable IF..... and I must have breached another clause for them to not be liable which I haven't.

Also the "For the Working Time. The particular days on which the Services are to be provided will be mutually agreed between the parties;"

There wasn't even an opportunity to agree, they just terminated. I can work 9-5pm Monday to Friday. I just means that I will need some time to organise childcare for fridays and it was a preference that sometimes I start earlier and finish later.

So I'm still unsure why my contract was terminated

 

[Paul Norman]

What you said you would work is different to the needs of the company. If the recruiters didn’t pass on your working schedule to the company they have failed to do their job properly.

That being said, if you want compensation you will have to take legal action. Which means the only winners will be the lawyers.

Yes. Frustratingly, perhaps, in these situations if a conversation between the parties does not fix it, there is little of value to be done other than moving on to the next challenge.

 

[fisicx]

So I'm still unsure why my contract was terminated

Because the client told the recruiter they didn’t want you.

 

[Mark T Jones]

What we have here is failure to communicate

It would appear in this case that the recruiter falls into the weak 'tell everyone what they want to hear' school of sales.

In reality it's probable that behind the sloppy front are some decent contracts - how much time, money & effort do you want to put in to fighting them?

 

[Newchodge]

I would suggest that the primary issue here is that the client wanted an employee but did not want to pay for one.

 

[IanSuth]

I would suggest that the primary issue here is that the client wanted an employee but did not want to pay for one.

Yes - that is my thought as well

What they want is a FTC employee but they thought they could get away without the obligations

I suspect either they found someone else who would toe the party line (as in another contractor likely through another agency even) so terminated your company contact as you were perceived as "hassle"

Remember unless the agency found a replacement they have also done a bunch of work for basically nothing as well, they get paid a margin on your hours, they were banking on 6 months worth of that margin and instead have received a pittance - few contract recruiters wok on retainer most are on contingency. There is no incentive for them to do 99% of the work and then dump you

 

[IanSuth]

Clause 16.1 says they are not liable IF..... and I must have breached another clause for them to not be liable which I haven't.

Also the "For the Working Time. The particular days on which the Services are to be provided will be mutually agreed between the parties;"

There wasn't even an opportunity to agree, they just terminated. I can work 9-5pm Monday to Friday. I just means that I will need some time to organise childcare for fridays and it was a preference that sometimes I start earlier and finish later.

So I'm still unsure why my contract was terminated

Ignore 16.1 look at 15.1 which is about the term of the assignment (16.1 is about termination due to an issue) particularly the piece i have bolded and how it interacts with the notice period of "immediate" for both parties listed in the contract particulars at the bottom - it also allowed you to walk away leaving them in the lurch with no notice or liability so it is fair

15. Term
15.1 This agreement shall commence on the start date set out for the Placement and shall continue (subject to the provisions of clause 15) until the end date set out for the Placement without the need for notice, unless terminated by either party giving the other the length of notice required by the Placement in writing. This term may be extended with the written consent of both parties.

 

[WaveJumper]

Thought it would be strange if the contract had not got a "proper" termination clause

 

[ethical PR]

I understand, seems the recruiter and the client have had a major miscommunication (not my fault), but the recruiter can't terminate my contract because they have messed up? Surely?

Why are you asking a forum. If you want to take legal action speak to a commercial solicitor.

Not quite sure why you are being disingenuous you know exactly why you were dismissed.

For £80K for six months many would have just sorted out childcare.

 

[Financial-Modeller]

The issue I have is it is not clear why I have been terminated.

Perhaps worth reminding you that precisely because your contract was one of service provision, not of employment, the recruiter is under no obligation to tell you why the contract has been terminated.

Despite mentioning that you want to work outside IR35, you seem to be thinking like an employee.