General Business Forum Brought to you by Total Gas & Power

Min Wage increase

Discussion in 'General Business Forum' started by BizGurl, Apr 15, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Podge

    Podge UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    1,154 367
    From a purely economic standpoint you are perfectly correct. However the volume of unemployed and the MW are a social issue not an economic one.

    As I have said previously the people who are unfortunate enough to find themselves unemployed are not the baddies, if you want someone to blame then blame the government for setting the mw at the level it is.

    No matter how much you rant and rave the situation will not alter so why not take yourself out of the country altogether and become a happier person for it. I'm sure I would be happy for you to go as to my mind it's people like you who are the problem with the country, not the poor unfortunates you so easily revile.
     
    Posted: May 3, 2011 By: Podge Member since: Jan 13, 2011
  2. aapkae

    aapkae UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    20 1
    Your very slow.

    (Sorry)

    I think businesses are always against Min. Wage increases, who wants to pay more money out?
     
    Posted: May 3, 2011 By: aapkae Member since: May 3, 2011
  3. Podge

    Podge UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    1,154 367
    At least I can spell :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2011
    Posted: May 3, 2011 By: Podge Member since: Jan 13, 2011
  4. Dawg

    Dawg UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    10,900 3,466
    It might be a social issue. But if the economy can't provide either the jobs or the benefits to satisfy the needs raised by the social issue, well, what do you do? Being a social issue doesn't trump having no ability or money to deal with it, does it?

    And don't you think it's a bit rich telling a business person, on a business forum, that he is unwelcome when you have no business and are here to 'rant and rave' about things you can't change?
     
    Posted: May 3, 2011 By: Dawg Member since: Feb 12, 2006
  5. Lee Jones Jnr

    Lee Jones Jnr UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    3,751 736
    It isn't quite that simple.
    There are many many people who earn more than NMW. Businesses don't hire based on price, they hire based on value.
     
    Posted: May 3, 2011 By: Lee Jones Jnr Member since: Dec 6, 2009
  6. Cornish Steve

    Cornish Steve UKBF Newcomer Full Member

    14,858 2,117
    I agree. So, why are companies forced to pay a NMW? Shouldn't the government be topping up the wage to some kind of minimum?

    Company officers are out to run a profitable and successful business, and keeping costs low is an important element of that. If a majority want to see some type of social policy implemented, that's the role of government. Don't penalize companies so they can no longer compete in the international market.
     
    Posted: May 3, 2011 By: Cornish Steve Member since: Jul 4, 2005
  7. Podge

    Podge UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    1,154 367
    I don't disagree but where would the money be found to make up the wages? the only answer then is that taxes would have to rise, so the business would be no better off in the long run.

    Just in case you were not aware the government are subsidising wages already which is one of the reasons we have thehigh tax levels that we do.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2011
    Posted: May 3, 2011 By: Podge Member since: Jan 13, 2011
  8. Silky

    Silky UKBF Ace Full Member

    1,170 210
    Hasn't anyone heard of Working Tax Credit and Child Tax Credit? Both are forms of what you're suggesting above - topping up the income of people who fall under the threshold. Usually families but not exclusively, my sister claimed the former when she was off work due to chemotherapy. Funnily enough, these and similar benefits are criticised on another thread...

    As mentioned on another thread, why should the tax payer fund greedy companies? With no NMW, there'd be nothing to stop me employing people at £1 an hour and expecting the tax payer to pay them the difference (we certainly had quite a number of recruits who I suspect would do that to get a start).

    Silky
     
    Posted: May 3, 2011 By: Silky Member since: Oct 29, 2007
  9. Silky

    Silky UKBF Ace Full Member

    1,170 210
    We advertised a role which is admin based, but with experience in the travel trade and knowledge of the relevant booking systems an advantage. We received applications from people who were worth considerably more than £9 an hour - one lady had a 1st from a leading university in Marine Biology and had recently been made redundant, her previous salary was twice what we were offering. Unfortunately she wouldn't have stayed with us and would probably have ended up resentful of being in a job where she wasn't using her brain to its maximum potential. She also doesn't have the admin / systems experience we were looking for.

    Unfortunately in times of recession there are few jobs available in some key sectors and this lady is looking for something, anything just to be able to support herself. She's applying for all kinds of role that are beneath her, and most recruiters are taking our stance - she's rejected for being overqualified.
    Does this mean she's not worth the £9? Or does it mean she should not bother applying for the roles under this and wait for that very elusive role to come along? In another thread people suggest taking any old job to get off the dole, now you're criticising people who do this as being worthless.

    We have got a very good recruit who is likely to enjoy her job, the benefits, and actively want to work and grow within our company. Well worth the £9 an hour.

    Some people struggle to understand the most simple logic...

    Silky
     
    Posted: May 3, 2011 By: Silky Member since: Oct 29, 2007
  10. Lee Jones Jnr

    Lee Jones Jnr UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    3,751 736
    Quite. I'm just a simple shop keeper, no wonder I'm so impoverished.
     
    Posted: May 3, 2011 By: Lee Jones Jnr Member since: Dec 6, 2009
  11. Dawg

    Dawg UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    10,900 3,466
    I don't think you would find anyone who would work for £1 an hour. The demand might be there but the supply would not be, and I doubt very much if any of the tax credit schemes would make enough difference to change that.
    But interesting that you say a number of applicants would work for £1/hour just to get a start. This means they must be subsidized by someone other than the government, probably the family.
    Is this any worse than having the government subsidize it? At least with the family the money is directly used rather than being taken in tax, filtered through a bureaucracy and returned as tax credits with all the costs involved in that. People also get work experience, are less reliant on the state and, (in the case of teenage and young males) less likely to get into trouble.
     
    Posted: May 3, 2011 By: Dawg Member since: Feb 12, 2006
  12. Esk247

    Esk247 UKBF Legend Free Member

    7,758 1,514
    Many people from this country may not work for £1 an hour because they value themselves higher than that and require a higher rate of pay to live. Maybe not NMW higher but higher than £1.

    However, people from other countries would happily work for that amount over here. I'm sure many actually do work for close to £1 an hour. Sure, they may not last in that job when they realise they're being paid pittance but there will be another 100 to fill those spaces left.

    Would be an interesting thing to trial though. Does abolishing the NMW mean that the market sets its own rate? hmm..i have my doubts. I don't think it will drop to £1 but i think the rate will drop A LOT with employers choosing to pay less and expect less from employees.

    Especially unusual for many on here to attack the NMW when they themselves will not get out of bed for less than £50 per hour. A Kings wage to some.

    Again..I don't know either..just throwing it out there.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2011
    Posted: May 3, 2011 By: Esk247 Member since: Oct 6, 2008
  13. hmmm

    hmmm UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    1,722 127
    some of the view points look like there asking for an egypt or libyia or tunsia or any of those countries issues here.if the continued trend of thinking its ok to pay low wages keeping people at the bottom then one day it just might happen..

    like i say if you cant afford the wages or you dont want to then you have no business..
    the whole attitude of supply and demand is not always a true way to compare wages..
    the brain to Brawn way is not imo the right way either...

    personally i dont see why someone with "brains" should be considered a "worth" on a bigger scale than someone with brawn, logically it makes no sense to me and i feel that the "brains" have been programmed to think this way as to make a divide...

    its nonsense..

    i dont see any difference in "worth"
     
    Posted: May 3, 2011 By: hmmm Member since: Apr 14, 2011
  14. Dawg

    Dawg UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    10,900 3,466
    Are you saying that raising a point about the NMW will bring on a revolution? I seriously doubt it.

    If you are running a business which is undercut by businesses from abroad you can either lower your costs or go broke.
    You can lower your costs by lowering wages, employing fewer or employing only abroad. It's not a simplistic question of 'if you can't afford the wages'.
    Supply and demand do not compare wages. they determine the level of employment (in this case). If you have a better method of determining this please let us know.
    It might be a nonsense to you. To many people paying idiot footballers, (brawn), vast amounts of money is a nonsense too. But that is the way the world works: there just isn't enough supply of really top rate footballers, so the demand for the ones that there are means vast salaries are paid.
    You are using 'worth' as a measure of humanity, of the importance of every human being. Very few will disagree that all people are worth the same in this way. Others are talking about 'worth' as a measure of how much their efforts create in a financial way. Again very few will disagree that, in this case, all people are not the same, (see footballers, above).
     
    Posted: May 3, 2011 By: Dawg Member since: Feb 12, 2006
  15. Silky

    Silky UKBF Ace Full Member

    1,170 210
    Or you can look at automation so you need fewer staff - the only way many UK manufacturing plants have managed to survive. But in doing so and lowering costs, the business grows and employs more staff and more technology and the spiral goes upwards...

    There's also differentiation on the point of service - how many people on here hold their head in their hands when a customer service call is answered in Bangladesh? I'm delighted First Direct have stuck with Scotland and Leeds and wouldn't hesitate looking at an alternative if they sacrificed service in place of a cut in wages.

    There are other ways to compete than purely cost and other ways to tackle the issue rather than rushing to employ a village full of Phillipinos for a bowl of rice each month.

    Silky
     
    Posted: May 3, 2011 By: Silky Member since: Oct 29, 2007
  16. hmmm

    hmmm UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    1,722 127
    maybe not a revolution but things could get bad if people are pushed to a sense of no "worth" and despair .
    on another site i commented on this sort of thing talking about just those types of countries only 6 months ago .low and behold what happens.the thought that oh it wont happen here is a blind reality of what is really going on in the world of poverty britain..
    the thought should be what if ,as this is how the minds are being trained to think about almost everything i can think of, isnt it?

    what types of business that only pay low wages or NMW are being under cut by over seas firms?

    the issue of top footballers and comparing them to business and brains to brawn is a no go as im sure there is intelligence there as well .it may not be sitting at a desk intellect or programming a computer but either way its there.
    this is my whole point. what is intelligence? how do you measure it...?
    then we have dead end mind numbing jobs that an interllect possibly physically or mentally couldnt do.
    how do you measure these things?

    the question and measure of worth is to me measured with all the above..the fact we may have an over priced market to create a wage of worth is a false flag to divide
    maybe?
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2011
    Posted: May 3, 2011 By: hmmm Member since: Apr 14, 2011
  17. Silky

    Silky UKBF Ace Full Member

    1,170 210
    I don't know whether they would, if we have a job worth doing, it's worth doing properly and I wouldn't offer that kind of salary. However, if someone has been long term unemployed and simply desperate to get a start, I'm sure some would work for very little just to get on the ladder somewhere. In fact hasn't there been controversy recently about internships....working to get a start in a chosen career but for nought?

    Child and Working Tax credit wouldn't support a wage of £1 an hour now because it's illegal, were it legal however I'm sure they'd have no choice. In that case it would probably make little difference to the employee whether they worked for £1, £3 or £5 an hour if WTC took it up to the minimum acceptable standard. This then comes back to Steve's point of the government subsidising the low paid (which they do) but to a greater extent. The tax payer then shoulders the burden of employers exploiting the work force, our national budget is put under even greater pressure, taxes rise and we're further back than where we started...

    Silky
     
    Posted: May 3, 2011 By: Silky Member since: Oct 29, 2007
  18. Lee Jones Jnr

    Lee Jones Jnr UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    3,751 736
    In response to the financial implications for the country, the national debt was falling falling falling before the NMW was introduced, and has risen risen risen since.

    Can someone tell me why the world wasn't a Mad Max style free for all before the NMW existed? Or why unemployment was lower?
     
    Posted: May 3, 2011 By: Lee Jones Jnr Member since: Dec 6, 2009
  19. sirearl

    sirearl UKBF Legend Free Member

    29,807 6,643
    Someone nicked all the honey when the bee's were not looking.;)

    Earl
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2011
    Posted: May 3, 2011 By: sirearl Member since: Apr 23, 2007
  20. Senington

    Senington UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    45 5
    Well inflation has gone up, so it all works out about even anyway. Obviously as an employer, they would be against the raised minimum wage.
     
    Posted: May 3, 2011 By: Senington Member since: Feb 26, 2011
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.