It's not over yet - EU

Discussion in 'General Business Forum' started by bluenun, Jun 25, 2016.

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  1. Scott-Copywriter

    Scott-Copywriter UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    A "private" conversation between Ken Clarke and Malcolm Rifkind surfaced today as they were waiting to be interviewed for Sky News.

    I say "private" because it's their own fault if they risked having a conversation like this in front of cameras where they didn't want their views to be made public. Although something tells me that they weren't too bothered either way:



    Very interesting.
     
    Posted: Jul 5, 2016 By: Scott-Copywriter Member since: May 10, 2006
  2. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    I have lived in the North East since 1984. Prior to that I lived in Greater London for 28 years.

    I cannot begin to comprehend why most of the people I speak to in the North East are SCREAMING about immigration, when you rarely see anyone who hasn't been in the north east for the last 5,000years. Unless they mean me. I have challenged people who say that we've got to deal with immigration. I ask them when they last saw an immigrant. They will mention a tiny group of people in one part of Newcastle.

    I really do not understand it.
     
    Posted: Jul 5, 2016 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
  3. ShirleyM

    ShirleyM UKBF Regular Free Member

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    Just call me a cock eyed optimist. I still believe in democracy, sovereignty and self-government. The EU and it's minions can try to take it away, and may even succeed temporarily, but dictators always lose in the end. As the EU is quite happy to continue on it's merry way against the will of the people then civil war will surely be the result.
     
    Posted: Jul 5, 2016 By: ShirleyM Member since: May 5, 2016
  4. Scott-Copywriter

    Scott-Copywriter UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    I agree completely.

    I don't think I've ever actually spoke to an EU immigrant in the North East. Ever. I have just never crossed paths with one.

    Some people, especially in the North East, were just looking for someone to blame for their problems, and this referendum was the only real outlet to do that. They were able to stick two fingers up at immigrants, and the Conservative Government, in one neat little package.

    Sunderland, for example, is one of the most anti-immigration areas in the UK, yet it also has one of the lowest levels of foreign-born populations in the UK by far. Their stance is therefore clearly not based on actual personal experiences.
     
    Posted: Jul 5, 2016 By: Scott-Copywriter Member since: May 10, 2006
  5. Ian J

    Ian J Factoring Specialist Full Member - Verified Business

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    I think that they are probably referring to Mr Rahman who's shop was next to the motorbike shops

    (In joke for Geordies only)
     
    Posted: Jul 5, 2016 By: Ian J Member since: Nov 6, 2004
  6. Ian J

    Ian J Factoring Specialist Full Member - Verified Business

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    My son lives in Sunderland and he is considered by most of his friends to be an immigrant as he was born in Sussex
     
    Posted: Jul 5, 2016 By: Ian J Member since: Nov 6, 2004
  7. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    But Mr Rahman was, personally, loved by the Geordies. Or at least by the bikers on Westgate Road.
     
    Posted: Jul 5, 2016 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
  8. Scott-Copywriter

    Scott-Copywriter UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    I do think that the lack of EU immigration in these areas exacerbates the anti-immigration stance of some just because it's the fear of the unknown.

    Whilst in some parts of the UK you wouldn't blink twice if you interacted with someone from a different country, up here it would be a lot more noticeable as it just doesn't happen that often at all. Like you say, even British people from different parts of the UK are more noticeable as "outsiders".
     
    Posted: Jul 5, 2016 By: Scott-Copywriter Member since: May 10, 2006
  9. KM-Tiger

    KM-Tiger UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    It hasn't changed then. I worked and lived in Newcastle in the early 1970s, and being London born and bred was definitely an outsider, though made most welcome.

    Did acquire some Geordie friends, who would speak to each other in a language I could not understand, then translate for me.
     
    Posted: Jul 5, 2016 By: KM-Tiger Member since: Aug 10, 2003
  10. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    LOL

    I have to translate for my (London based) brother if he comes up here.
     
    Posted: Jul 5, 2016 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
  11. Scott-Copywriter

    Scott-Copywriter UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    That is the weird thing. The North East has a very strange dynamic. It is easily one of the most warm, welcoming and friendly regions in the country for the most part. I have no doubt that any EU national entering a pub in the North East would be met warmly by locals who would take a keen interest in their story.

    The problem never seems to be with the people anyone meets. I've read a few stories from EU nationals living in the UK who were re-assured by pro-Brexit friends that "it's not you - you're different".

    The problem always seems to be with the "others". The mysterious group of immigrants you hear bad things about, but who no one has actually met. They just exist, somewhere.

    It really seems as though the bulk of anti-immigrant sentiment has been built by the media, hear-say and Brits not being so willing to socialise with people who may be different.

    Perhaps this is where my pro-immigration stance arises. I know many people well from across Europe - from France and Italy to Slovakia and Poland - and they are all some of the nicest, friendliest and most helpful people I've ever met. I think the UK would be a much better place if they did live here.
     
    Posted: Jul 5, 2016 By: Scott-Copywriter Member since: May 10, 2006
  12. Pish_Pash

    Pish_Pash UKBF Ace Free Member

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    I know the North East very well, I was raised there....they make it extremely difficult for anyone not from the UK to reside there (& also quite difficult from anyone not from the North East! 'Not keen on outsiders' would be a fair assessment.)...I don't condone it, but I know their makeup.

    If they make it extremely difficult for immigrants t reside there...typically the end result is not many do....this is why you don't see many immigrants in the north east. Those immigrants that do manage to tough it out for a few years are clearly thick skinned & are then generally accepted by the immediate locals!

    Put it this way, if I were an immigrant...the North East would be at the bottom of my favoured regions!
     
    Posted: Jul 5, 2016 By: Pish_Pash Member since: Feb 1, 2013
  13. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    I have been made very welcome, despite being from London. OK I get the odd joke, but it is always meant as banter - and I can tell the difference. Even when I tell Geordies that my father was a mackem the aggression is always well-meaning.

    The reason there aren't many immigrants here is that there aren't many jobs. There is also little wealth, so little to attract small businesses - there are no customers for those businesses. (OK I know that is an over-simplification, but it is fundamentally true.)
     
    Posted: Jul 5, 2016 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
  14. Scott-Copywriter

    Scott-Copywriter UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    Wealth does play a part. I don't think it's a coincidence that the North East, with one of the lowest foreign-born populations in the UK, is also one of the poorest.

    However, a lot of people don't seem to realise that the cost of living, and also the cost of property, is equally low as well. You can get a quite nice 3 bedroom home with a garden for £120k up here. A similar sized property in some South East regions would cost double or even quadruple that.

    I've always maintained that the "pressure" of immigration is not actually caused by the number of immigrants. It's just caused by immigrants, as well as British people, concentrating themselves in particular regions of the UK with better job and wealth prospects.

    When you have the North East with only 1.6% of the foreign-born population, and the South East with 13.3% of the foreign-born population, you clearly have a problem somewhere.
     
    Posted: Jul 5, 2016 By: Scott-Copywriter Member since: May 10, 2006
  15. Raw Rob

    Raw Rob UKBF Enthusiast Free Member

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    I also think the media play a large part in this. I think this cartoon says it very well:
    [​IMG]
     
    Posted: Jul 5, 2016 By: Raw Rob Member since: Aug 1, 2009
  16. Scott-Copywriter

    Scott-Copywriter UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    Posted: Jul 5, 2016 By: Scott-Copywriter Member since: May 10, 2006
  17. MBE1

    MBE1 UKBF Enthusiast Free Member

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    I think the remainers on the forum are yet again demonstrating the condescending attitude which led to the out vote. Everyone had a vote, worth the same as anyone elses, whatever their level of education, understanding and reasons for voting whichever way they did.

    So far we are told Brexiters are too thick to see the consequences of leaving, are racists, cannot understand complex problems, have low levels of education, earn too little etc, this list goes on and on.

    It has now come too light Cameron was actively supporting the remain campaign for weeks before declaring the end of the negotiations, that the Chancellor implored foreign officials to warn of the economic consequences to try and help project fear, plus what else is yet to come into the light.

    Has it not occured to the remainers they are the sheep and the Brexiters are the ones with the vision and nouse to see through the establishment lies? Some things are worth more than just money too many people, the Brexiters voted knowing that their pockets could suffer as a result and guess what? They still voted the way they did.

    You guys are barking up the wrong tree, you just cannot understand the result of the vote because you don't understand the general public, just as Cameron failed to understand them. In his eyes the chance of an out vote was zero.

    If other people talked to yourselves the way you condescendingly slag off Brexiters, or more accurately the general public for making what you see as the wrong decision you would be screaming as much as..... well as much as you lot are about the result.

    As for the north east, one of my favorite areas and lovely people IMO, clever as well.
     
    Posted: Jul 5, 2016 By: MBE1 Member since: Jun 1, 2012
  18. MBE1

    MBE1 UKBF Enthusiast Free Member

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    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Brussels-diktat-accepting-quota-migrants.html

    Yet Hungary are starting to rebel against the EU, the beginning of a growing movement after Brexit. The EU chooses to see nothing wrong with itself, which will lead to it's downfall. The UK was not the first to vote to leave the failed experiment either.
     
    Posted: Jul 5, 2016 By: MBE1 Member since: Jun 1, 2012
  19. Scott-Copywriter

    Scott-Copywriter UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    No one can understand this complex problem. Not even remainers.

    Therein lies the issue. All of us are grossly under-qualified to fully understand the ramifications of this vote. You could quite literally produce thousands upon thousands of pages of detailed analysis covering every impact Brexit could have in many hundreds of ways.

    With the way the referendum campaigns were undertaken, with lots of buzz words and short-sentence claims, it was impossible to be fully informed about this decision unless you spent months studying the intricacies of economics, immigration, politics and legislation.

    I spent dozens of hours researching various topics on the run-up to the referendum date, and I know I barely scratched the surface. There are 4 year, full-time university degrees in European Law alone. How on earth were any of us expected to make a fully informed decision in only 3 months?

    Everyone has a right to vote and a right to make a decision, but let's not pretend that this whole referendum was fully informed and factual in any way.

    These survey results from Ipsos MORI really say it all:

    It's frightening - especially the EU democracy point. A big part of the leave movement was based on fighting against "unelected bureaucrats", yet 40% of people didn't even realise that MEPs were elected by the public.

    And let's not forget those who believed the £350million per week figure, or those who believed that Turkey is on the verge of joining the EU.

    What are you supposed to say when this hugely complex situation was decided by many people who simply believe things which are not true?

    This does not account for everyone of course, but the truth of the matter is that many voters went to the polling booths that day without knowing all of the facts. That no doubt applies to remain voters in some respects as well.
     
    Posted: Jul 5, 2016 By: Scott-Copywriter Member since: May 10, 2006
  20. simon field

    simon field UKBF Big Shot Full Member - Verified Business

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    And of course, those who believed that Islamic State wanted a Brexit because all of our security forces would suddenly stop communicating, or those who believed Turkey wouldn't be joining until the year 3000 :).

    I say again, just about everybody who I spoke to was voting out (vast majority being small business owners) wasn't doing so based upon any silly headlines, campaigns, politicians, or so-called experts.

    They were voting out based upon decades of experience existing under the EU, simples.
     
    Posted: Jul 6, 2016 By: simon field Member since: Feb 4, 2011
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