It's not over yet - EU

Discussion in 'General Business Forum' started by bluenun, Jun 25, 2016.

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  1. Toby Willows

    Toby Willows UKBF Regular Free Member

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    Its very simple really. We pay £350,000,000 per week. We get over half that back in grants etc. We are still about £150,000,000 down a week on the deal. Ok, that's the cost of free trade in the EU. Now when we leave we'll have the full £350,000,000 to do with as we please, rather than being told what to do with it via "handouts". Simply we will be able to spend OUR money where WE see fit, and have so much more, how can that be a bad thing?
     
    Posted: Jul 2, 2016 By: Toby Willows Member since: Jun 20, 2016
  2. ShirleyM

    ShirleyM UKBF Regular Free Member

    238 81
    Not a belief. It was a question, hoping someone could verify, or refute, what I had heard.
     
    Posted: Jul 2, 2016 By: ShirleyM Member since: May 5, 2016
  3. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    Sorry, I can't do either, but I thought the old Tiger might know.
     
    Posted: Jul 2, 2016 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
  4. KM-Tiger

    KM-Tiger UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    I have not heard that.

    Art 50 of the Lisbon Treaty makes no reference to what happens about contributions. I would guess the intention was that the detail of how contributions would be handled would be part of the negotiations.

    That's if we use Art 50. We don't have to, and I've found the proper reference for the other method here.
     
    Posted: Jul 2, 2016 By: KM-Tiger Member since: Aug 10, 2003
  5. pjperez

    pjperez UKBF Regular Free Member

    106 17
    The thing is, we are not paying £350M. It's not just handouts, but several rebates so the money never leaves our soil and we actually can dispose of it as we please.

    We will really have about £100M extra to dispose as we please - that's if the economy doesn't slow down and we lose profits higher than that, which some experts think it's more than possible.

    Also, I am afraid that now Murdoch will have the country at his disposal. That's my biggest fear.
     
    Posted: Jul 2, 2016 By: pjperez Member since: Mar 31, 2014
  6. bharris

    bharris UKBF Regular Free Member

    543 82
    Even at your worst case that's £100M not worth bothering about then as its just loose change......

    Not so sure about Murdoch, i would of thought it would be better for him globally if we remained, the news papers here will just print whatever the readers want to read. Watching Sky news i would say its biased towards remain, just like the BBC, CNN etc. etc.

    On the demo there was a banner saying " i demand democracy" ummm wasn't there a vote? which i agree wasn't fair, with the Government using it resources, over spending on propaganda, extending the register time to allow re-portably young remain voters to vote. Foreign owned bushiness sending threatening letters to employees and they still lost.

    When will these bigoted, self obsessed idiots going to accept the result and move on?
     
    Posted: Jul 3, 2016 By: bharris Member since: Dec 30, 2014
  7. Ian J

    Ian J Factoring Specialist Full Member - Verified Business

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    No-one can see the future but only the "remainers" think that they can. You say, and I quote " I understand you will never publicly accept any facts that contradict your beliefs" yet your claims above are not facts but speculation based on nothing substantial but yet mere guesswork
     
    Posted: Jul 3, 2016 By: Ian J Member since: Nov 6, 2004
  8. Scott-Copywriter

    Scott-Copywriter UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    No we don't.

    The fact this figure is still being argued about just shows how far misinformation spread throughout this campaign. It astounds me that people are so ready to dismiss the opinion of "experts" regarding Brexit, yet this figure is still being thrown around despite some simple research showing it to be utterly untrue. It's really quite worrying.

    Our £5billion rebate is applied at the point the payments are made. This means that we never pay that amount, nor do we pay the full amount to then receive the rebate back. It's clear in the UK Government's own statements:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa..._finances_2015_final_web_09122015.pdf#page=38

    it's a barefaced lie, and if you think it's true, then you've fallen for a barefaced lie spun by the movement you support.

    It's not YOUR money. It's the Government's money, and they will spend it as THEY see fit.

    This is what the money coming back is currently spent on:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa..._finances_2015_final_web_09122015.pdf#page=22

    EAGF - European Agricultural Guarantee Fund - subsidies paid directly to British farmers to support UK agriculture.

    EAFRD - European Agricultural Fund for Rural Development - investment to improve the competitiveness, environmental impact and economic activity of rural British farmers.

    ESF - European Social Fund - funding for skills training, job training and job creation to help British people find better jobs.

    ERDF - European Regional Development Fund - funding for development and job stimulus in some of the UK's poorest regions.

    Science funding - Grants to UK scientists to fund science research and development (we've received double the amount of science funding than any other EU country).

    So what do you expect the right-wing, austerity-driven Conservative government to do with it instead? The UK has already cut its own funding projects and scrapped its own regional development fund as part of austerity cost-cutting measures.

    We'll never see a penny of that money. The deficit and annual borrowing is still there, and the Government is still hell-bent on reducing it. Yet again, money for some of the neediest in the UK will be taken away to plug the gap a little bit more.

    Gove's claim that an extra £100million per year will be sent to the NHS by 2020 is actually HALF of what our current Government has promised by 2020. He's not adding to the NHS budget. He's cutting the original amount promised in half.
     
    Posted: Jul 3, 2016 By: Scott-Copywriter Member since: May 10, 2006
  9. MBE1

    MBE1 UKBF Enthusiast Free Member

    647 215
    There lies the problem, most of the remainers have decided they are intellectually superior to those that decided to leave, they produce evidence on how they have better jobs, degrees etc, whilst ignoring the simple fact the country decided to leave.

    The protest to remain should have been re titled "We do not believe in democracy unless the vote goes our way"

    Today on tv saw Tony Blair advocating not doing anything until we have negotiated our terms of leaving, and then to decide based on that picture, forgetting the EU will not negotiate until we invoke article 50.

    The UK has to leave to preserve democracy, anyone trying to stop this happening is looking to overthrow our democracy and way of life, insulting the sacrifices of millions over the years.

    I have no problem with someone not agreeing with the decision but accepting they lost the vote, but the decision has been taken and made and must be carried through.
     
    Posted: Jul 3, 2016 By: MBE1 Member since: Jun 1, 2012
  10. Ian J

    Ian J Factoring Specialist Full Member - Verified Business

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    The spreading of misinformation wasn't limited to the Brexit group as there was just as much spread by the Remainers using the Government machine to spread it with.

    Both sides have a lot to answer for in the way that they conducted their campaigns and neither side was better or worse in that respect
     
    Posted: Jul 3, 2016 By: Ian J Member since: Nov 6, 2004
  11. Ian J

    Ian J Factoring Specialist Full Member - Verified Business

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    There is one that fits the bill posting quite regularly on this thread
     
    Posted: Jul 3, 2016 By: Ian J Member since: Nov 6, 2004
  12. jacksonian

    jacksonian UKBF Contributor Free Member

    61 2
    The biggest enemy of the West; the modus operandi of the EU, is the Fascism and bigotry of the Political Correctness. PC and its poisonous interfering tentacles is the cancer that renders the "West" unable to defend itself against those who seek its demise, and the "elephant in the room" that has led to the Referendum out vote. The Referendum was a Democratic free vote, so those who oppose the result (the minority), by definition render themselves in disagreement with Democracy. What right have these bigots to accuse the IN voters of "believing the lies" of the politicians? Minds were made up years ago. Anyway, both sides lied.
     
    Posted: Jul 3, 2016 By: jacksonian Member since: Mar 2, 2013
  13. Scott-Copywriter

    Scott-Copywriter UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    Most leave supporters would have done the exact same thing if remain had won. Anyone who claims otherwise is just not being truthful.

    Anyone who is passionate about a cause which is then lost will instinctively continue to fight for it. They won't just roll over. Let's not forget what Nigel Farage said just a month and a half ago when he thought remain would win:

    His prediction came true, but just with leave taking the win instead of remain. Now where are his calls for a second referendum? Or does he only mean that when he's on the losing side?

    Anyway, for the Brexiteers who are so defensive over the sovereignty of UK law, perhaps they should take the whole political system into account instead of just picking and choosing what they like.

    The fact of the matter is that whilst this referendum does provide the verdict of the majority of the people, there is nothing in UK constitutional law which gives priority to the verdict of referendums. However, what UK constitutional law DOES contain is the legal requirement for our elected politicians to act in what they believe is the national interest. That is legally binding. This referendum is not.

    For the UK to start the withdrawal process, the decision will have to be put to a vote by Parliament. It can't be done any other way, as if the Prime Minister chooses to do it of their own accord, then it will be overuse of prerogative powers.

    There is simply nothing in UK law which would allow the PM to legally make a decision of this scale without receiving the consent of Parliament first. This referendum, not being legally binding, does not give the PM the legal right to do this either - even if the result is in favour of leaving. Remember that the European Union Referendum Act 2015 - which allowed this referendum to take place and stipulated that it was not legally binding - had to be passed by Parliament first.

    This means that the majority of pro-EU MPs who think it's a bad idea to leave are now left in a predicament. If they vote in favour of leaving, they will be catering to the will of the people which is not legally binding. However, at the same time, they will be going against their judgment of what they believe is in the national interest, and thus going against their legally bound constitutional obligation as elected officials.

    It's a fallacy to believe that the UK democratic system is based on elected officials carrying out the will of the people. It has never been like that. The system is based on the public electing officials, for any reason they wish, who are then duty-bound to make decisions based on what they feel is best for the country as a whole.

    So, in the event that Parliament does vote against Brexit, bear in mind that they would simply be doing what they were elected to do by you and every other British citizen under UK law.

    If you don't like that, then vote a majority of MPs into Parliament who do believe it is in the national interest to leave. That is what your legal vote is for.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2016
    Posted: Jul 3, 2016 By: Scott-Copywriter Member since: May 10, 2006
  14. atmosbob

    atmosbob UKBF Ace Free Member

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    Posted: Jul 3, 2016 By: atmosbob Member since: Oct 26, 2009
  15. bharris

    bharris UKBF Regular Free Member

    543 82
    We trade with the whole world. Trading with anyone outside the EU is a complete nightmare as i have to stick an additional sticker on the box, takes me about 30 seconds longer, i just don't know how i will cope.... There are many many many companies on here who trade with the whole world, there is even a separate section on this forum dedicated to it.

    As for the article, what a load of utter rubbish. If the first post which is by "anonymous" is true then they are dealing with a company that doesn't have sufficient funds to keep going and they need to actually sell off more of there business to raise capital to buy the telecom equipment. Stopped reading after that poor attempt of playground journalism.

    A couple of days before the vote and just after we suffered a shard decline in orders, which we expected as since 08 any uncertainty (financial, terrorist etc..etc.) causes erratic behaviourisms sometimes lots of orders sometime hardly any. After the vote we have actually had an increase in orders from the EU and further field, however UK order were down. They are coming back to normal levels now. I know we are totally insignificant in the amount we sell to make any difference on a trade balances, it is however a true fact!

    Any company / organisation that changes their mind overnight without waiting to see what actually happens is probably looking for an excuse to change their mind.
     
    Posted: Jul 3, 2016 By: bharris Member since: Dec 30, 2014
  16. Toby Willows

    Toby Willows UKBF Regular Free Member

    759 164
    Ok Scott I'm at a disadvantage as I don't have a time machine, I don't know the Doctor, Captain Jack Harkness, Dr Sam Beckett or H.G.Wells. I don't have access to the USS Enterprise to do a quick flip round the sun and to top it off my crystal ball is far from reliable.

    The FACTS is our cost, before rebates, grants etc to the EU is (was before long) £350,000,00 a week. That is the cost of our membership. Then by way of the rebates etc we STILL pay about £150,000,000 a week that never comes back. There are no lies there. I along with other "leavers" have always been very clear on what we actually pay.

    There is no reason that any Euro "subsidies" can't still be paid to the list you gave, with change for other worthy causes to boot, no reason at all (again with you being a time traveler I'll have to bow to your superior knowledge if this doesn't happen (or is that hasn't happened from your perspective?)).

    And it is our money, the government spend it on our behalf after we have given it to them (sorry everyone but I'm trying to keep this simple, so yes it is bleedin' obvious). That is why we have regular elections, to keep control (to a degree) of how our money is spent.

    Now do something useful and pm me next Saturdays lotto numbers would you. Thanks

    EDIT
    Oh, and no I don't believe the leavers would have kicked up a fuss like the childish remainers, simply because everyone was telling us we wouldn't win. Well that and we believe in democracy.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2016
    Posted: Jul 3, 2016 By: Toby Willows Member since: Jun 20, 2016
  17. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    So the exiter who started the petition that there should be a new referendum if there wasn't a big enough margin was not a sore loser?
     
    Posted: Jul 3, 2016 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
  18. Toby Willows

    Toby Willows UKBF Regular Free Member

    759 164
    Oh ****, your right. One out of seventeen and a half million how stupid am I. How many 10,000's of numpties have been demonstrating against democracy. How many million (well probably not that many as it's a hard core minority of a minority rigging a petition they didn't have the wherewithal to start themselves) signed a petition calling for a another referendum? The only reason that that petition was started, well before the actually referendum, was because we were told the leave campaign had no chance. And the government had the upper hand with it's remain leaflets distributed to every household, how democratic is that?
     
    Posted: Jul 3, 2016 By: Toby Willows Member since: Jun 20, 2016
  19. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    By definition, only (some of) the losers will demonstrate against the result.

    The only person who demonstrated against the result before it was known was an exiter.
     
    Posted: Jul 3, 2016 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
  20. Toby Willows

    Toby Willows UKBF Regular Free Member

    759 164
    Nope, I believe the PM had his resignation speech prepared well before all the votes were in!! He should have had the guts to stay and see it through like promised though. Perhaps the leave camp should demonstrate against his, and therefore the remain camps LIES.
     
    Posted: Jul 3, 2016 By: Toby Willows Member since: Jun 20, 2016
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