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Is registering as an employer compulsory?

Discussion in 'Accounts & Finance' started by Sunny Days, Feb 9, 2018.

  1. Sunny Days

    Sunny Days UKBF Contributor Free Member

    37 0
    Hi

    According to HMRC website, we don't need to register as an employer for a new business... according to our accountants, we do! There are 4 questions on the HMRC site and the outcome from our answers was that we don't need to register. Why does our accountant want us to, apart from making money from it?
     
    Posted: Feb 9, 2018 By: Sunny Days Member since: Feb 9, 2017
    #1
  2. KAC

    KAC UKBF Enthusiast Free Member

    897 199
    We'd need to know the questions and the answers you gave. Are you trading as a limited company?
     
    Posted: Feb 9, 2018 By: KAC Member since: May 7, 2017
    #2
  3. Sunny Days

    Sunny Days UKBF Contributor Free Member

    37 0
    Thanks KAC. It's for a sole trader business with no one being paid above £113, no benefits/expenses, pensions, etc. The government website definitely said we don't have to register but the accountant still hasn't come back to us.
     
    Posted: Feb 13, 2018 By: Sunny Days Member since: Feb 9, 2017
    #3
  4. STDFR33

    STDFR33 UKBF Big Shot Free Member

    3,517 854
    Do any employees have second jobs?
     
    Posted: Feb 13, 2018 By: STDFR33 Member since: Aug 7, 2016
    #4
  5. MyAccountantOnline

    MyAccountantOnline UKBF Legend Full Member

    12,191 2,271
    The difficulty you have in asking a question such as this is that your accountant will have information that we dont.

    You do need to get the answer from your accountant.

    If you truly cant trust them to give you genuine advice you are using the wrong accountant.
     
    Posted: Feb 13, 2018 By: MyAccountantOnline Member since: Sep 24, 2008
    #5
  6. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

    9,307 2,366
    Posted: Feb 13, 2018 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #6
  7. Sunny Days

    Sunny Days UKBF Contributor Free Member

    37 0
    Thanks for the replies.
    Newchodge - no, they don't tick any of those boxes and no student loans
    STDFR33 - no, no second jobs
    MyAccountantOnline - Sadly, I think you're right but in other ways they've been great so I just don't understand why getting the right answer on this is proving difficult. Now being told
    a pension would have to be offered to the employee working 7 hours a week, £7 per hour (just out of college). So confused :/
     
    Posted: Mar 6, 2018 By: Sunny Days Member since: Feb 9, 2017
    #7
  8. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    I think you need to challenge them to justify their advice. Particulkarly the auto enrolment element. perhaps they are excellent accountants, in terms of tax etc, but haven't he faintest idea when it comes to employment matters. That is not unknown!
     
    Posted: Mar 6, 2018 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #8
  9. Adam93

    Adam93 UKBF Regular Free Member

    148 24
    Although you may not need to set up a PAYE scheme, some accountants would advise this. What happens if your employee is off sick and you have to pay the statutory sick pay by law, or statutory maternity pay by law. What happens if they do get another job and do not tell you thinking it is not relevant. What happens when they come to get their state pension and they do not have enough qualifying years because you didn't run their pay through a PAYE scheme.

    Generally, this rule only suits sole director/shareholder companies. As an employee I wouldn't want to work for someone who wasn't processing my pay through a PAYE scheme to HMRC.
     
    Posted: Mar 6, 2018 By: Adam93 Member since: Jan 18, 2018
    #9
  10. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

    9,307 2,366
    If they are not earning £113 per week, then there is no possibility of having to pay statutory pay. If they are earning that, the advice has already been given to set up as an employer and use a payroll scheme.
    If you asked the question when they were employed and they lied, that is not your issue.
    If they weren't earning £113 per year it would not make the slightest difference to their pension entitlement.
    This is a rule that applies to every employer and whether it 'suits' someone or not is entirely irrelevant.
    Then I am sure we are all glad you are an employee and not an employer. If you were an employer I would not wish to work for you when you not only don't have the faintest idea what you are talking about, but also are prepared to demonstrate your ignorance to everyone.
     
    Posted: Mar 6, 2018 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #10
  11. Adam93

    Adam93 UKBF Regular Free Member

    148 24
    Jesus, you get out of bed the wrong side this morning?

    I didn't say that the employee would lie about it but it can be overlooked. The employee may get a another job and not tell their current employer as they are not obliged to.

    Last time I checked, it was the employers responsibility to make sure the correct income tax and national insurance is deducted.

    If you use basic tools or bright pay it will cost all of £0 to set up a payroll scheme and file RTI submissions - that is why I am so curious everyone is against setting up a payroll scheme.

    Cheer up Cyndy, it might never happen ;)
     
    Posted: Mar 6, 2018 By: Adam93 Member since: Jan 18, 2018
    #11
  12. Sunny Days

    Sunny Days UKBF Contributor Free Member

    37 0
    Thanks Cyndy :)

    One more question, if you're not registered as an employer, what happens about a P45 when someone leaves?
     
    Posted: Mar 6, 2018 By: Sunny Days Member since: Feb 9, 2017
    #12
  13. Sunny Days

    Sunny Days UKBF Contributor Free Member

    37 0
    I'm not against it Adam... especially at that price :) But our accountants charge £5 per employee per week, plus a set up fee, plus £200 (or £250, can't remember) for setting up the pension. If none of this is necessary, I don't want to pay it.
     
    Posted: Mar 6, 2018 By: Sunny Days Member since: Feb 9, 2017
    #13
  14. Scalloway

    Scalloway UKBF Legend Free Member

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    As the employee is not on PAYE it is not possible to produce a P45.
     
    Posted: Mar 6, 2018 By: Scalloway Member since: Jun 6, 2010
    #14
  15. Sunny Days

    Sunny Days UKBF Contributor Free Member

    37 0
    Thanks Scalloway. Guess that's one reason that registering is preferred? I thought everyone was entitled to a P45 when they left a job, obviously not :)
     
    Posted: Mar 6, 2018 By: Sunny Days Member since: Feb 9, 2017
    #15
  16. Scalloway

    Scalloway UKBF Legend Free Member

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    Posted: Mar 6, 2018 By: Scalloway Member since: Jun 6, 2010
    #16
  17. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    No. I object to someone giving totally crap advice and pretending that it is accurate. Every line of your post is wrong.
     
    Posted: Mar 6, 2018 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #17
  18. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    A major part of my business is running payroll. I am not ever against anyone who needs to running payroll.
     
    Posted: Mar 6, 2018 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #18
  19. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

    9,307 2,366
    You do need to give them a P45 as their new employer will need to know how much they have earned in the current tax year, even though they will not have paid any tax.
     
    Posted: Mar 6, 2018 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #19
  20. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

    9,307 2,366
    Not that it is relevant, but my fees are less than that :)
     
    Posted: Mar 6, 2018 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #20