Is it just me that thinks holiday pay is unfair?

Discussion in 'Employment & HR' started by JpeeL, Apr 13, 2019.

  1. JpeeL

    JpeeL UKBF Contributor Free Member

    67 18
    Everyone I discuss this subject with disagrees with me, personally I think it’s daft that people are entitled to full pay for days off. I effectively have to pay them twice if I get a part timer in to cover them or I end up doing it myself. I just think it’s really tough on smaller businesses and to heavily weighted in employees favour.

    Even something like 1st 14 days full pay and the 2nd 14 half pay would be far better, I mean we already pay into this daft nest thing aswell, how much can smaller business take before its to much? No wonder automation is so popular!
     
    Posted: Apr 13, 2019 By: JpeeL Member since: Jul 19, 2017
    #1
  2. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    I absolutely agree with you. What is even worse is the requirement that you actually pay your staff. Why aren't these ungrateful individuals prepared to work for you for the gratitude you will show them. Giving them money as well is ridiculous. How can a small busines make any money if it has to properly reward the peope who actually make the money?
     
    Posted: Apr 13, 2019 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
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  3. JpeeL

    JpeeL UKBF Contributor Free Member

    67 18
    What a daft reply
     
    Posted: Apr 13, 2019 By: JpeeL Member since: Jul 19, 2017
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  4. obscure

    obscure UKBF Ace Free Member

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    Ask a daft question get the reply it deserves.
     
    Posted: Apr 13, 2019 By: obscure Member since: Jan 18, 2008
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  5. JpeeL

    JpeeL UKBF Contributor Free Member

    67 18
    Why exactly is it a daft question?
     
    Posted: Apr 13, 2019 By: JpeeL Member since: Jul 19, 2017
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  6. obscure

    obscure UKBF Ace Free Member

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    Because we no longer live in Victorian times. People deserve to receive not just the minimum necessary to maintain life... they deserve a decent wage for their work and if a business can't afford to pay its staff/tax/costs then it isn't a viable business and needs to be taken out the back and put out of its misery.

    Sick people still have to pay rent and buy food. Society has decided that the burden of paying that should fall, in the first place, on their employer. I suppose the government could pay.... oh wait all their money comes from tax so you would be paying anyway... Do you actually have a workable alternative you would like to propose?
     
    Posted: Apr 13, 2019 By: obscure Member since: Jan 18, 2008
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  7. JpeeL

    JpeeL UKBF Contributor Free Member

    67 18
    Yes as I said in my OP, first 14 days full pay, 2nd 14 days half pay. Tbh I’m not sure where ‘sick people’ come into things?
     
    Posted: Apr 13, 2019 By: JpeeL Member since: Jul 19, 2017
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  8. kulture

    kulture UKBF Legend Staff Member

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    With your attitude to employees, I too would wonder where "sick people" come into things. I would be very careful and look more at the legal obligations you have as an employer. An employment tribunal can be a company destroying event.

    When you hire someone a good business person would take into account the full COST OF EMPLOYMENT. This would be the legal holidays, the wages, the tax, the permitted breaks, the cost of running payroll, pension contributions etc.

    So holiday entitlement at full pay is just part of their wages. You should have factored it in from the beginning.
     
    Posted: Apr 13, 2019 By: kulture Member since: Aug 11, 2007
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  9. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

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    Unfair or not you are required to give your employees 28 days holiday a year.

    As required by law.

    You could always use self employed to do the work, no need to pay them anything but their invoices.
    Of course they will make sure to charge you appropriate amount to cover their time off anyway.
     
    Posted: Apr 13, 2019 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
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  10. Chris Ashdown

    Chris Ashdown UKBF Legend Free Member

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    Unless its been changed you can by law still tell staff when they can have their holidays or even close down the company for say a month and make everyone have that as there holiday, much like schools and some large factories up north used to do,
     
    Posted: Apr 13, 2019 By: Chris Ashdown Member since: Dec 7, 2003
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  11. UKSBD

    UKSBD Not a real duck Staff Member

    9,183 1,720
    All you have to do is take in to consideration how much holiday time they will have before saying what wages they will get

    i.e if you think they are worth £11.20 an hour you pay them £10 an hour.
     
    Posted: Apr 13, 2019 By: UKSBD Member since: Dec 30, 2005
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  12. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

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    And staff can prefer choosing when they take holidays themselves, so can work against recruiting and retaining staff.
     
    Posted: Apr 13, 2019 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
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  13. JpeeL

    JpeeL UKBF Contributor Free Member

    67 18
    Sorry but can we get one thing VERY clear. I have plenty of staff ALL of them get full holiday pay, I pay ALL of them full pay if they are off sick.

    I wanted a debate to see what other people thought of it, instead I get accused of ripping off my employees.
     
    Posted: Apr 13, 2019 By: JpeeL Member since: Jul 19, 2017
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  14. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

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    Perhaps everyone disagrees with you. Just like you are finding elsewhere.
     
    Posted: Apr 13, 2019 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
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  15. Chris Ashdown

    Chris Ashdown UKBF Legend Free Member

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    Even scrooge becama a nice man after 3 HMRC inspectors visited him

    Ops sorry "Gosts"
     
    Posted: Apr 13, 2019 By: Chris Ashdown Member since: Dec 7, 2003
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  16. kulture

    kulture UKBF Legend Staff Member

    7,912 2,152
    No-one, anywhere, has accused you of ripping off your employees. That said no-one agrees with you. The cost of employing someone includes holiday pay, and should be factored in at the start. If you complain about this you might as well complain about the minimum wage or other working time regulations. Your complaint that it is not "fair" is tough. It is the law. Nothing says the law has to be fair. However in this instance I think it is fair and reasonable to let employees have holidays, and pay them. You get better productivity.
     
    Posted: Apr 13, 2019 By: kulture Member since: Aug 11, 2007
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  17. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

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    Fair also means that anyone employing staff has to meet certain minimums regarding conditions of employment.
    So you don't gain an advantage, or a competitor of yours doesn't gain an advantage, but getting someone in on less than minimum.
    Unless using slavery / work gangs / people off the books etc.
     
    Posted: Apr 13, 2019 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
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  18. SteLacca

    SteLacca UKBF Ace Free Member

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    When you take holidays, do you still take your income on the back of employees still at work?
     
    Posted: Apr 15, 2019 By: SteLacca Member since: Jun 16, 2016
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  19. Ashley_Price

    Ashley_Price UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

    7,114 1,308
    You would want to pay staff half pay for the second 14 days they are off... does that mean you would only expect them to work for half the time for the second 14 days they are in work?

    This is where so many prospective employers fall down. They look at how much someone's salary is going to be, and think "I can afford that", without also factoring in all the additional costs, including holiday pay, of employing someone.

    This is why people like me are so popular, because I am hired (and paid) only when required. :)
     
    Posted: Apr 15, 2019 By: Ashley_Price Member since: Feb 9, 2008
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  20. andygambles

    andygambles UKBF Ace Full Member - Verified Business

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    No holiday pay = nobody takes holidays = no tourist trade = thousands of businesses close = millions out of work.
     
    Posted: Apr 15, 2019 By: andygambles Member since: Jun 17, 2009
    #20