Immigration. Do we need more?

Discussion in 'General Business Forum' started by Funding for Communities, Nov 2, 2015.

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  1. Andrew Chambers

    Andrew Chambers Banned

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    Only trouble there is they have long fled and been in safety by the time they reach the Jungle at Calais. That is very much their choice. If they were only looking for safety they wouldn't be travelling a further 2,000 miles just to get splattered by a train trying to get through the tunnel. What's that all about then?
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2015
    Posted: Nov 20, 2015 By: Andrew Chambers Member since: Sep 21, 2015
  2. John Pegram IT Consultant

    John Pegram IT Consultant UKBF Contributor Free Member

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    I mean how dare they Andrew. I know they've had their families killed and what have you but their only coming here to sponge off our government and blow us all up in terror plots.
    Maybe they come because they heard that the UK care about people. That we've got the infrastructure and the capability to help them. The attitude towards foreign nationals and minority groups in this country stinks to high heaven.
    It is not helped by idiot racists like the BNP, EDL and UKIP as well the cretins in Britain First drumming up hatred as much as they can. Here's the thing. Groups like the above and the animals in ISIS are one in the same. They want us to hate each other, be suspicious of each other and remain divided. They thrive on it.
    The division in our communities needs to be dealt with, and the hand of kindness should be extended to those who need it. And instead of number crunching and saying 'loads of blokes in that group! he's got a smart phone! oh why did they travel all that way?! thats a bit iffy' try seeing the person. There are groups on Facebook that show people safe places to go. They use their phones to navigate there.
    Again I believe in being selfless and helping others. These are human beings and they need our help. A lot of them are skilled human beings. And the ones that aren't maybe just need some help to get back on their feet. if other countrys can help them so can we.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2015
    Posted: Nov 20, 2015 By: John Pegram IT Consultant Member since: Nov 12, 2015
  3. John Pegram IT Consultant

    John Pegram IT Consultant UKBF Contributor Free Member

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    I'll wait for the next ignorant comment about how my dad came over here to get a free ride. Never mind the fact the police murdered people because of the colour of their skin in SA back then.God help you if you wanted freedom. You know even if my parents were both from England I would still feel the same about immigration and race as I do at present.
    I will never let myself think in sweeping generalizations. Just saying.
    Like Richard Branson says when it comes to business or anything else 'be a force for good.'
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2015
    Posted: Nov 20, 2015 By: John Pegram IT Consultant Member since: Nov 12, 2015
  4. Andrew Chambers

    Andrew Chambers Banned

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    Hmmn, didn't answer my question but instead contradicted yourself with the uk being caring and tolerant, then mentioning ukip, bnb not helping the situation!

    Not sure why you mentioned you Father, you seem troubled no one has accused him of being a sponger. Why would we? The chip seems to be sitting firmly on your shoulder.
     
    Posted: Nov 20, 2015 By: Andrew Chambers Member since: Sep 21, 2015
  5. John Pegram IT Consultant

    John Pegram IT Consultant UKBF Contributor Free Member

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    I mentioned my dad earlier on in the thread and about how he came over in the 1970s from SA and made a big contribution as he was alllowed to be a teacher where as in South Africa because of his colour he wasn't allowed to do that. My point being not all people coming here are coming to take advantage of the UK and some really do need our help. Your saying why have they gone another 2,000 miles? maybe because they think we can help. There is a lot of ignorance out there with immigration. I also had some muppet imply my dad did 'alright' and got a free house and health care which got my back up. And no bringing up the bnp and edl is not a contradiction. If you read what I wrote I used them as examples of how bad things have got. Listen its very clear this is going to round in circles. I think we need to help a lot more than what we are doing. And I think the biggest changes start at home.
    Wondering how many of the people moaning about the country being flooded etc are the sort of people that start a conversation with 'I'm not racist but' when discussing things like this. Or 'I've got loads of minority mates me! ' I'm very proud of my roots by the way.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2015
    Posted: Nov 20, 2015 By: John Pegram IT Consultant Member since: Nov 12, 2015
  6. John Pegram IT Consultant

    John Pegram IT Consultant UKBF Contributor Free Member

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    On a IT contracting forum the other day there was some thread about are Muslims ignoring extremism or some rubbish and the highlight for me was a member saying 'oh its bad everywhere now! I know someone who got acid thrown on him by a black man because his drug dealer boss told him to do something bad!' or some stupid comment like that. And its like have we gone back to 1932 or something? has this entire country devolved into a mass of ignorant bigoted half wits who don't like anyone who isn't a UK national and isn't white?
    because from my point of view it appears to be heading that way.
    Because a part of me wonders if things get worse before they get better how long will it before chants of 'send them em all back!' start emerging. Britain is very multi cultural but there is also an incredible amount of racism out there too. Down with hatred and intolerance. On the plus side of things at least its friday. Sorry about the rant. I've got my Public Enemy T shirt on today.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2015
    Posted: Nov 20, 2015 By: John Pegram IT Consultant Member since: Nov 12, 2015
  7. Alps

    Alps UKBF Contributor Free Member

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    It saddens me that nobody sees the individual people in all this. Each immigrant is a different person in their own right. I would hate to think that in other countries I was being grouped together with the Jeremy Kyle-ist obsese benefit scroungers who produce more offspring each year to up their income. There is no blanket solution, and equally I think there is a huge lack of understanding from all directions.

    I am fairly "cuddly" but extremely hard working with it :)
     
    Posted: Nov 20, 2015 By: Alps Member since: Feb 12, 2013
  8. john1989

    john1989 Guest

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    Sorry John, but accusing contributors of being closet racists is uncalled for.


    Mentioning the likes of EDL and BNP does nothing for this debate. I agree, they are racist, but so are other groups such as Muslims Against Crusades.

    On the other hand, UKIP is a political party. I don’t agree that they are racist, but they do hold strong views on immigration.


    The point about them coming to England is that their motivation goes beyond securing a safe sanctuary, which is what a refugee should be doing. Instead they risk their lives trying to cross over to Britain because they know of our generous benefit system. Personally, if I had fled a poverty stricken, war torn country, I would be happy to remain in the first safe country I reached.


    I’m not a racist, and abhor racism but I do think we have an immigration problem. But to you, I must be a racist because I don’t agree with uncontrolled, mass immigration?
     
    Posted: Nov 20, 2015 By: john1989 Member since: Jan 1, 1970
  9. sirearl

    sirearl UKBF Legend Free Member

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    Just because the population walks around with there heads glued to Iphones with a copy of the Sun under their arms.

    Does not necessarily make them morons.;)
     
    Posted: Nov 20, 2015 By: sirearl Member since: Apr 23, 2007
  10. garyk

    garyk UKBF Legend Full Member

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    Hmmmm
     
    Posted: Nov 20, 2015 By: garyk Member since: Jun 14, 2006
  11. John Pegram IT Consultant

    John Pegram IT Consultant UKBF Contributor Free Member

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    1Very true and I didn't mean to imply that anyone here is a closet racist but from my point of view anti immigration is supported by the groups I mentioned and they use it as another tool to stir hate within communities. Racism goes both ways. Its wrong plain and simple as you know. I didn't however appreciate it being implied that my dad came to the UK for a house and free health care.

    2.I think that's down to your individual view point. I think Nigel Farange is a horrible ignorant little man and I really do not like the way he has talked about people from other countries before. For me with UKIP it seems to be a lot of finger pointing and blaming the minorities for the problems of the country. Isn't that what Hitler did to the Jews? (not that I'm saying he is on the same level as that guy but no matter how political people like that try to be it doesn't take long to see the person underneath. Take Nick Griffin as an example here.)

    3. I do not agree with that comment at all. Sorry but I just don't. Sweeping generalisations ahead stand clear.

    4. Interesting. No that isn't what I think because I don't put labels on people. I don't know you but I think anti immigration and the xenophobia and racism has a very thin line in the sand. Again for me personally I see the people. I don't see a series of problems. Just people that need our help.
     
    Posted: Nov 20, 2015 By: John Pegram IT Consultant Member since: Nov 12, 2015
  12. KM-Tiger

    KM-Tiger UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    And there you go again.

    It's perfectly possible to be against uncontrolled immigration, and yet be neither racist nor xenophobic. Until you can recognise that, there is no point debating with you.
     
    Posted: Nov 20, 2015 By: KM-Tiger Member since: Aug 10, 2003
  13. boring-friday

    boring-friday UKBF Enthusiast Free Member

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    UKIP racist? You know how many votes they got right? Lots of people coming here don't want to integrate. 'multi cultural society' doesn't work because lots of Pakistanis and Indians hate eachother, lots of eastern Europeans hate blacks and asians, lots of muslims hate us and eastern europeans and the UK has become a dumping ground for the lot.
    Nobody is saying that ALL people coming here just want hand outs, just too many of them do which is why a lot of people want CONTROLLED immigration, letting anyone in is the most ridiculous idea ever.
    We can't afford to be the worlds army,health service and benefits system. We have a tiny army,tiny police force, overrun doctors, 1 year mental health waiting times, 10 year+ housing waiting lists unless you pop out a few kids,1000s of homeless people and others relying on food banks and HMRC who seem to just be a couple of dozen school kids that don't actually make anyone pay any tax.
    If people want to help others in other countries they can donate to charities, I don't so I'm bored of paying for it. Sick to death of seeing pictures of small children from syria coming into Europe when the majority are just young adults too.

    And also I can't stand Islam as a whole or any religion for that matter, not that I hate all muslims, just the whole religion, have you actually read the book? Its violent as fuk, not surprising people take it the wrong way (or is it even the wrong way), muslim coutnries like Saudi Arabia still openly class women as second class citizens and murder you if you're homosexual
     
    Posted: Nov 20, 2015 By: boring-friday Member since: Jun 5, 2015
  14. ethical PR

    ethical PR UKBF Legend Free Member

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    You may not be a racist, but many of the views expressed on this thread, and elsewhere on this forum in response to issues around immigration and asylum seekers are racist (something the mods seem happy to let carry on).

    It's simply not true, that refugees come over here for access to our benefits system..where is the research that shows this to be the case?. This un-substaniated view is something spouted by those who have anti-refugee and immigration views as a reason for not meeting our obligations under the United Nations Convention.

    UKIP does indeed have members who openly put on record views which are racist, including its leader.

    What research shows are that there are complex reasons for refugees wanting to come to the UK and Germany (remember we take far, far less refugees than other countries, for example Turkey, the Middle East and Scandanavia ). Refugees come here, because they have family and friends here and want to be with their families and amongst people who they share an affinity with, they come here because they speak the language and it is easier to assimilate and find work (when and if they are allowed to work) and they come here because they perceive we are an open, friendly country with a strong tradition of democracy. Of course there will always be a small element of refugees and migrants who play the system, just as there are people on benefits in this country who choose not to work and have larger families to help them access social housing. This doesn't mean we should turn our back on the majority who are genuine.

    I haven't joined in this debate so far, because I know the sort of responses I will see on this sort of thread. These sort of threads aren't a place for reasoned debate but where those with anti-immigration and refugee views will simply shout down anyway who dares to have alternative views.
     
    Posted: Nov 20, 2015 By: ethical PR Member since: Apr 19, 2009
  15. John Pegram IT Consultant

    John Pegram IT Consultant UKBF Contributor Free Member

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    Very well said.
     
    Posted: Nov 20, 2015 By: John Pegram IT Consultant Member since: Nov 12, 2015
  16. KM-Tiger

    KM-Tiger UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    So why are our govt looking to delay paying benefits to immigrants, and have been talking about "benefit pull" for quite some time?
     
    Posted: Nov 20, 2015 By: KM-Tiger Member since: Aug 10, 2003
  17. ethical PR

    ethical PR UKBF Legend Free Member

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    Posted: Nov 20, 2015 By: ethical PR Member since: Apr 19, 2009
  18. boring-friday

    boring-friday UKBF Enthusiast Free Member

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    Think you missed the point, I feel sorry for the kids. Just fed up of media misrepresentation when the majority coming here are young adults :).
     
    Posted: Nov 20, 2015 By: boring-friday Member since: Jun 5, 2015
  19. john1989

    john1989 Guest

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    Posted: Nov 20, 2015 By: john1989 Member since: Jan 1, 1970
  20. john1989

    john1989 Guest

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    If someone seeks safe sanctuary in one country and proceeds to try and get to Britain at great risk, they are no longer a refugee; they are an economic migrant.
     
    Posted: Nov 20, 2015 By: john1989 Member since: Jan 1, 1970
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