im i been lied to ?

Discussion in 'Accounts & Finance' started by point123456789, Feb 17, 2021.

  1. point123456789

    point123456789 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    3 0
    Hi, Hope you can help?

    My question is firstly in a typical business relationship what I should have access to, e.g. P&L, Balance sheet, cash flow statements, owners equity etc.

    And in a partnership would it be standard practice for my accountant if they there different to the ones the company uses to have access to all this through the sage 50 system?
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021
    Posted: Feb 17, 2021 By: point123456789 Member since: Feb 17, 2021
    #1
  2. STDFR33

    STDFR33 UKBF Big Shot Free Member

    4,614 1,232
    Yes, if you have given them access.No if you haven’t given them access.
     
    Posted: Feb 17, 2021 By: STDFR33 Member since: Aug 7, 2016
    #2
  3. Ian J

    Ian J Factoring Specialist Full Member - Verified Business

    6,462 2,191
    What type of business relationship are you talking about - director? shareholder? employee?
     
    Posted: Feb 17, 2021 By: Ian J Member since: Nov 6, 2004
    #3
  4. MyAccountantOnline

    MyAccountantOnline UKBF Legend Full Member

    13,388 2,511
    If you are a director or partner definitely all of the above.

    Yes so that they can help advise the business, maybe assist with VAT etc., and to access reports and information they need to prepare year end accounts and tax returns.
     
    Posted: Feb 17, 2021 By: MyAccountantOnline Member since: Sep 24, 2008
    #4
  5. point123456789

    point123456789 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    3 0
    I'm a director and minority shareholder.
     
    Posted: Feb 17, 2021 By: point123456789 Member since: Feb 17, 2021
    #5
  6. point123456789

    point123456789 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    3 0

    let me add more context

    The split is 75 / 25 we have worked together for years.

    My role is marketing, and there's are operations and financial.

    As a result and naively, I've just trusted what I've been told regarding income and profitability.

    In light of recent events, I've come to question the rationale of is and looked at the agreement from years ago, mistakenly I thought I just got my 25% share.

    The shareholder's agreement states that the majority shareholder can choose what amount he can pay me.

    I have always used the same accounts as the company they are a large firm and other than dealing with the tax return I have on other advice from them.

    My question is firstly in a typical business relationship what I should have access to, e.g. P&L, Balance sheet, cash flow statements, owners equity etc.

    And would standard practice for my accountant to have access to all this through the sage 50 system?
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021
    Posted: Feb 17, 2021 By: point123456789 Member since: Feb 17, 2021
    #6
  7. johndon68

    johndon68 UKBF Big Shot Full Member - Verified Business

    3,463 637
    @MyAccountantOnline answered both of those questions earlier...
     
    Posted: Feb 17, 2021 By: johndon68 Member since: Nov 2, 2009
    #7
  8. Paul Norman

    Paul Norman UKBF Ace Free Member

    3,096 983
    As a director, you should be seeing the accounts, and that should ideally include monthly management accounts.

    Equally, as a director, if you feel there are doubts over any aspect of the business it would be wise to have a serious, and minuted, conversation with the other director(s) to gain clarity.

    If the other director(s) are not willing to do this then there is something dodgy.
     
    Posted: Feb 17, 2021 By: Paul Norman Member since: Apr 8, 2010
    #8
  9. The Byre

    The Byre UKBF Legend Full Member

    10,827 4,632
    I had a 16% or 12% share (I have forgotten which) share of a company until a couple of years ago. I and all the other shareholders had a full view of all transactions, right down to bank statements and bank IO print-outs. I gave them to our bookkeeper to go over with a fine toothcomb. I and the others were also CC'ed for all important communications such as lawyer letters and negotiations with other companies.

    We left the MD (also the largest shareholder) with full control of the company, but knowing that every detail is open to scrutiny keeps things nice and tidy and protects both the other owners and the manager.

    Full scrutiny is not just to protect you from him and others, but to protect him from you! That way, you cannot later cause problems by complaining that you were never informed.
     
    Posted: Feb 17, 2021 By: The Byre Member since: Aug 13, 2013
    #9
  10. UK Contractor Accountant

    UK Contractor Accountant UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

    5,231 941
    i think he means that he has his own Accountants which are different to to the Accountants for the partnership/Ltd.

    Should his own Accountants be granted access to the Sage dataset? - cant you give them your access details if you have them.
     
    Posted: Feb 17, 2021 By: UK Contractor Accountant Member since: Sep 18, 2013
    #10
  11. DontAsk

    DontAsk UKBF Ace Free Member

    1,846 289
    What rights do his personal accountants have to the company data?
     
    Posted: Feb 17, 2021 By: DontAsk Member since: Jan 7, 2015
    #11
  12. MyAccountantOnline

    MyAccountantOnline UKBF Legend Full Member

    13,388 2,511
    No external accountant would generally have any 'right' to company data - it would have to be given by the client to the accountant.
     
    Posted: Feb 17, 2021 By: MyAccountantOnline Member since: Sep 24, 2008
    #12
  13. MikeJ

    MikeJ UKBF Big Shot Free Member

    5,926 1,766
    Fine-tooth comb.

    It's a comb with fine teeth, not something you comb your teeth with.
     
    Posted: Feb 17, 2021 By: MikeJ Member since: Jan 15, 2008
    #13
  14. japancool

    japancool UKBF Big Shot Full Member

    3,749 716
    Posted: Feb 17, 2021 By: japancool Member since: Jul 11, 2013
    #14
  15. The Byre

    The Byre UKBF Legend Full Member

    10,827 4,632
    Hair-splitting 101 - a fine-toothed comb or a fine toothcomb.

    So let the original discussion carrion -
     
    Posted: Feb 17, 2021 By: The Byre Member since: Aug 13, 2013
    #15
  16. Ian J

    Ian J Factoring Specialist Full Member - Verified Business

    6,462 2,191
    I'm sure that he said that he used the same accountant as the company
     
    Posted: Feb 17, 2021 By: Ian J Member since: Nov 6, 2004
    #16
  17. Spur Support Services

    Spur Support Services UKBF Regular Free Member

    195 41
    As others have said, you should have access to the accounts if you wish, but in reality
    few non-Financial people want access right down to individual transactions.

    I would expect a reluctance from Finance Teams to give you full read/write access to the records, because that is a control risk.

    However, many accounting systems including Xero have Read Only access rights with Reporting functionality, which allow non-Financial business directors and owners to have continuous visibility of the data and reports without being able to affect it.
    It is likely that Sage 50 has similar functionality, although the scope may be different.

    The only word of warning there, is that you need to be aware of the accounting calendar, processes and controls so you understand whether you are looking at incomplete information.
    This is why Directors would normally only review Management Accounts and Key Performance Indicators for set periods, be that monthly or quarterly.

    If you feel concerned over the accounting situation then you are right to be asking for greater visibility. As a Director you are responsible for the company.
    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/being-a-company-director
     
    Posted: Feb 17, 2021 By: Spur Support Services Member since: Aug 21, 2020
    #17