If Scotland joines the EU will the Black Watch be controlled by the big fish or controlled by the EU

Discussion in 'Time Out' started by Chris Ashdown, Sep 15, 2021.

  1. Trevor Andrews

    Trevor Andrews UKBF Ace

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    Yes, we were sailing through France when the results of the referendum were announced and the French kept saying "why" "unbelievable" "sacre bleu" etc. We just agreed with them.
     
    Posted: Sep 23, 2021 By: Trevor Andrews Member since: Feb 9, 2021
    #21
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  2. Trevor Andrews

    Trevor Andrews UKBF Ace

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    Well some economists think with the loss in trade, costs we still want to pay the EU (Erasmus etc.) it will take 10 years for UK to recover, so don't hold your breath too long. Hopefully by then we will all agree to rejoin the best European achievement in the 20th Century.
     
    Posted: Sep 23, 2021 By: Trevor Andrews Member since: Feb 9, 2021
    #22
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  3. Chris Ashdown

    Chris Ashdown UKBF Legend

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    Sorry Trevor, but the EU was not the best European Achievement of the 20th Century, that position was held by the Common Market until ruined by the Maastricht Treaty which created a power grab which still continues today

    If you were to ask the most dedicated pro Brexit people they would all have agreed to staying in a common market would have been a great thing, unfortunately we never got to vote on that option, and all the southern and Eastern med countries have suffered ever after

    If you continue to read the anti Brexit papers etc you will never have a open mind to what's really happening in the real world
     
    Posted: Sep 23, 2021 By: Chris Ashdown Member since: Dec 7, 2003
    #23
  4. IanSuth

    IanSuth UKBF Big Shot

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    The point is we could still be in the SM & CU which is really what the common market was if it was not for a dogmatic approach by hard line brexiteers that we must not be in anything where the ECJ had any jurisdiction (some of them included the ECHR in that and it not even an EU body predating it by decades and being partly set up by us !)

    It is obvious if you are in any society/club/body that there has to be a complaints mechanism all members agree to abide by in the case of the SM/CU that is the ECJ
     
    Posted: Sep 23, 2021 By: IanSuth Member since: Apr 1, 2021
    #24
  5. Trevor Andrews

    Trevor Andrews UKBF Ace

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    Well others disagree
    "The EU is imperfect – but will go down in history as one of Europe’s most creative experiments in community building"
    https://www.historyextra.com/period/20th-century/big-question-has-european-union-eu-been-success-brexit/
    Besides power grabbing goes on everywhere and including the UK.
     
    Posted: Sep 23, 2021 By: Trevor Andrews Member since: Feb 9, 2021
    #25
  6. The Byre

    The Byre Full Member

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    Exports to the USA are running at £3.7bn pcm, tendency falling.
    Exports to the EU are now £14bn pcm, tendency rising.
    All non-EU exports are now £13.6bn pcm, tendency falling.

    The EU now accounts for 51% of all UK exports. It is our most important trading partner - more important than all others put together.

    The US and Chinese economies are sick and getting sicker. The sickness is debt. The US in particular is suffering rampant hidden inflation that may spill over into a UK economy, especially now that we are outside of the EU.

    Warren Buffett said at his recent annual meeting: “We're seeing very substantial inflation… I mean, we're raising prices. People are raising prices to us. And it's being accepted… The costs are just up, up, up… it's almost a buying frenzy... there's quite a bit more inflation going on than people would have anticipated.”

    The Fed printed a trillion dollars in just two days last March with the $500 billion plan to buy municipal bonds and the $700 billion to buy loans made by the U.S. Treasury and mortgage-backed securities (QE). And then there's the Fed’s $2.3 trillion programme to help banks, businesses, and corporate bonds.

    The US has already injected $11 trillion new dollars into the system since the start of last year and Biden intends to inject another $4 trillion to come in the next few months.

    That means the US has gone to The Magic Money Tree for a total $15 TRILLION in a single year! The US economy is falling off a cliff and is going to crash.

    Economic historian Adam Ferguson explains what happens in his book When Money Dies: “It was the natural reaction of most Germans, or Austrians, or Hungarians--indeed, as for any victims of inflation--to assume not so much that their money was falling in value as that the goods which it bought were becoming more expensive in absolute terms.”

    And this is exactly what’s happening in America right now. Most Americans are doing the same thing Germans, Hungarians, and Austrians did with their soon-to-be-worthless currencies, even after they’d been devalued for the umpteenth time:

    As one German woman said of this era: "When prices soared 25% in a bakery in a single day, “the baker didn’t know how it happened… his customers didn’t know… it had something to do with the dollar, somehow to do with the stock exchange—and somehow, maybe, to do with the Jews.”

    Madness - a frenzy is created, encouraging massive gambling, hoarding, and speculation as everyone attempts to keep up with the “get rich quick” stories reported in the press.

    That is what happened in 1920s Germany, Austria and Hungary and that is what is happening in the US today!

    Out of the ashes of hyperinflation rose Adolf Hitler and WW2 - and he didn't stop until Germany had been culturally and economically obliterated. The same may happen to America.

    Johnson, by cuddling up to a dying elephant, wants Britain to be a part of that.

    Scotland does not.
     
    Posted: Sep 23, 2021 By: The Byre Member since: Aug 13, 2013
    #26
  7. Mark T Jones

    Mark T Jones UKBF Legend

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    I'm struggling to believe the EU will exist in 20 years - at least in anything like its current form.

    It's a power-hungry, bureaucratic, corrupt, money-sapping monstrosity.

    My biggest disappointment about Brexit is that the EU didn't see it as an opportunity to reform - says a lot about internal political motives.

    Creative experiments in community building? Sounds like faint praise- didn't they once say that about concrete tower blocks?
     
    Posted: Sep 23, 2021 By: Mark T Jones Member since: Nov 4, 2015
    #27
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  8. IanSuth

    IanSuth UKBF Big Shot

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    Thing is (which is relevant to this thread) you can say exactly the same about the UK

    What is the actual difference between the EU as a group of countries banded together for mutual benefit and the UK an group of countries banded together for mutual benefit.

    If you believe that the UK had the right to ask's it's people about wanting to stay in and it was their right to say they wanted to leave so leave we have, you can not logically argue that the Scottish people should not have the right to say if they want to stay in the uk and if they say no let them leave.

    I mean to them they see Westminster as a remote power mad bureaucratic monstrosity which wastes money like there is no tomorrow

    Wales i have less sympathy for as they are more tightly bound in not having their own legal system or really much non English other than language
     
    Posted: Sep 23, 2021 By: IanSuth Member since: Apr 1, 2021
    #28
  9. The Byre

    The Byre Full Member

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    That statement does not stand up to even a cursory inspection.

    The Commission employs about 24,000 civil servants and a further 9,000 temporary staff. Admin accounts for just 6% of a total budget of c.a. €150bn - the remaining 94% is spent on schemes that benefit the member states such as infrastructure projects (47%) the CAP (38%) and foreign aid to third world countries (6%).

    Compare that with the UK's MoD - a staggering 60,000 civil servants to administer some 180,000 troops. Or the BBC with 22,000 employees, most of whom do not make programmes.

    As of the end of March 2021, there were 468,130 full-time equivalent UK civil servants, an INCREASE of 27,000 (6.1%) over the previous quarter. Holy Moly! They must be breeding!

    As for waste and corruption . . . the list of government waste and corruption is pretty much endless.

    Which seems to cover the true reality of the situation.
     
    Posted: Sep 23, 2021 By: The Byre Member since: Aug 13, 2013
    #29
  10. Mark T Jones

    Mark T Jones UKBF Legend

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    For context I should have added the word 'additional' since what we are dealing with is more, rather than replacement
     
    Posted: Sep 23, 2021 By: Mark T Jones Member since: Nov 4, 2015
    #30
  11. atmosbob

    atmosbob UKBF Legend

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    Only according to the right wing press who seem to be on an anti truth campaign.
     
    Posted: Sep 23, 2021 By: atmosbob Member since: Oct 26, 2009
    #31
  12. atmosbob

    atmosbob UKBF Legend

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    Cornwall County Council has 12,429 salaried workers plus many more than 9,000 directly working for the council on outsourced jobs. Some dozen or so are on salaries higher than the Prime Minister.
     
    Posted: Sep 23, 2021 By: atmosbob Member since: Oct 26, 2009
    #32
  13. Mark T Jones

    Mark T Jones UKBF Legend

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    That does sound a bit like the argument that alcohol is an addictive drug and legal, therefore all addictive drugs should be legalised

    My political history is scant, but the UK has (mostly) morphed into a comfortable if dull marriage which kind of makes sense due to border issues (now evident in ireland)

    The EU is nowhere near that situation

    To add I was and am very pro the origins of a trading/ peace agreement - and mostly pro freedom of movement
     
    Posted: Sep 23, 2021 By: Mark T Jones Member since: Nov 4, 2015
    #33
  14. The Byre

    The Byre Full Member

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    My wife and our four children and four grandchildren and I can live and work anywhere in the EU. That freedom has now been denied the 65m Brits by Brexit. You are now locked into this island.
     
    Posted: Sep 23, 2021 By: The Byre Member since: Aug 13, 2013
    #34
  15. IanSuth

    IanSuth UKBF Big Shot

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    Actually a bit of simple thought shows that is not true on average

    It may be that there are 1000 EU civil servants in the Department of making chocolate brown, but if that means we dont need a Brown chocolate department employing 100 in each of the 28 members then there is an obvious economy of scale in employing 1000 not 2800

    This is why we suddenly have 27k more civil servant's here - a lot are duplicating work being carried out in Brussels or with Brussels which didnt need doing pre Brexit. Any analysis of benefit has to factor in this loss of efficiency. I mean we are getting a whole new govt department in Reading (or we might not, nobody seems to know any more) the new Trade Remedies Authority complete with completely overpaid head £32k for 50 days work https://publicappointments.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/appointment/chair-trade-remedies-authority/
     
    Posted: Sep 23, 2021 By: IanSuth Member since: Apr 1, 2021
    #35
  16. IanSuth

    IanSuth UKBF Big Shot

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    So your reasoning is the components of the UK have finally settled down and stopped fighting mainly (if you ignore N.Ireland) so that makes it totally different than the EU which has only been around a few decades and has since it's formation not had any internal wars whilst those countries did beforehand

    Sorry all i can see you saying is basically if you get through the trial period you can't get out the contract later (ever)
     
    Posted: Sep 23, 2021 By: IanSuth Member since: Apr 1, 2021
    #36
  17. Mark T Jones

    Mark T Jones UKBF Legend

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    My reasoning, in a nutshell is - if it ain't broke, don't fix it - which also applies to the EU

    I voted remain the personal balance was about 60/40, swayed by the inevitable disruption of leaving

    We've left, so I will get on with life

    Before, as now, I tried to be informed 90% of the narrative was about individual circumstances I bought a book - relatively apolitical- to take a broad view the conclusion appeared to be 'it depends'

    So, as the 100 year old man said, 'we are where we are'
     
    Posted: Sep 23, 2021 By: Mark T Jones Member since: Nov 4, 2015
    #37
  18. IanSuth

    IanSuth UKBF Big Shot

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    Fair enough - i am just of the opinion now that devolution has been set in motion it is pretty inevitable we will see a degree of breakup

    Personally I would prefer we were all in a large EU with tiers of govt responsible for differing things with little overlap, so at a Brussels level things like Trade deals, deciding where is dangerous enough it's citizens can have refugee status, safety and labour standards, then national govts doing national variants inside those frameworks and setting national budgets for things like health, then county/unitary then town - no need for overlap each level does what it does and feeds into the level above taking steer from them for policies. Like the courts work with precedent rules

    But i think i am being a bit too utopian
     
    Posted: Sep 23, 2021 By: IanSuth Member since: Apr 1, 2021
    #38
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  19. Trevor Andrews

    Trevor Andrews UKBF Ace

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    Well today's news is:
    • that UK exports to Ireland have fell by £2.5bn in the first 7 months of this year (Guardian)
    • UK Businesses have had to pay an extra £1.6bn in the first half of this year on Customs Duties. (Guardian)
    • UK is no longer in the top 10 for trade with Germany with German from the UK down 11% in the first six months (Reuters).
    • Germany's Good Exports to UK rose by 2.6% to €48bn (Reuters).
    The irony is that Brexiters and Boris said losing EU business would not be a problem as we would be "Global Britain". So your claim that UK NON-EU exports are down is not actually encouraging.

    The only animal I know that is becoming extinct is the British Lion.

    Here on these pages businesses have been saying about all the losses due to Brexit and we in Spain are turning more and more to EU suppliers due to problems in importing from UK. Meanwhile the only agreements this government has signed means we get more meat from Australia and can supply submarines to them. Hardly helping the UK business economy.
     
    Posted: Sep 23, 2021 By: Trevor Andrews Member since: Feb 9, 2021
    #39
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