General Business Forum Brought to you by Salesforce

I took on 3 full time staff part way through Oct 2020 can i Furlough them at their agreed salary?

Discussion in 'General Business Forum' started by Rapid Eye, Jan 12, 2021.

  1. Alan

    Alan UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

    6,698 1,843
    I'm surprised you don't have an accountant to advise you, just a book keeper - something ti think about.

    Anyway the best people to ask how to calculate partial October furlough payments is HMRC, try asking direct.

    Still confused here, they are either employed previously by someone else ( agency ), or they were employed by themselves ( self employed ). But to say they were employed by you but not on PAYE ( if above the threshold ) is illegal.
     
    Posted: Jan 12, 2021 By: Alan Member since: Aug 16, 2011
    #21
  2. Rapid Eye

    Rapid Eye UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    14 0
    Yes I was employing them previously on a freelance basis... then paye from middle of October. Yes it may have been illegal but the idea was to sort it out ASAP. Which is what I did
     
    Posted: Jan 12, 2021 By: Rapid Eye Member since: Jan 12, 2021
    #22
  3. Alan

    Alan UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

    6,698 1,843
    Posted: Jan 12, 2021 By: Alan Member since: Aug 16, 2011
    #23
  4. Rapid Eye

    Rapid Eye UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    14 0
    Ah thanks for pointing that out. Now they are on PAYE and I am hoping I can Furlough all 3 of them Using their salaries as the reference rather than he rti payment made in Oct. I will forward this to my bookkeeper and my accountant and see if they can do a bit more digging ... Thankyou
     
    Posted: Jan 12, 2021 By: Rapid Eye Member since: Jan 12, 2021
    #24
  5. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

    14,906 4,021
     
    Posted: Jan 13, 2021 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #25
  6. Mark T Jones

    Mark T Jones UKBF Big Shot Free Member

    5,200 2,094
    You've been given the correct answer, but you don't want to hear it

    If you start asking HMRC to allow for your illegal 'employment' practices you stand to lose a lot more than you will gain
     
    Posted: Jan 13, 2021 By: Mark T Jones Member since: Nov 4, 2015
    #26
  7. BustersDogs

    BustersDogs UKBF Ace Free Member

    1,371 253
    Can't believe what I'm reading here.

    It's like the guy on the radio last week complaining he couldn't get one of the grants for his business because he doesn't pay business rates. And owns the garages he keeps his used cars in for sale so doesn't have to pay rent. And complaining he can't get help.

    Advisor on the radio was gobsmacked that he was angry he couldn't get something he wasn't entitled to.

    Let's hope the employees of this guy see the discussion and pop themselves along to a tribunal to claim what they are owed.
     
    Posted: Jan 14, 2021 By: BustersDogs Member since: Jun 7, 2011
    #27
  8. Rapid Eye

    Rapid Eye UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    14 0
    Hey the employees PAYE is paid up to date but i won't be able to keep these payments up for much longer without help. Thanks for your opinion
     
    Posted: Jan 14, 2021 By: Rapid Eye Member since: Jan 12, 2021
    #28
  9. RCC

    RCC UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    11 0
    Okayyyyy
    From reading this thread and the way that the OP phrases things I believe that English is not his first language and it seems to me that the word freelance should be replaced with the word casual.
    It’s not illegal to employ casual staff and if the op was ‘trying something new in an existing business’ as stated, it doesn’t necessarily seem like an abuse of the system.
    More of a surprise is that having been in business for 29 years the op and book keeper don’t understand how furlough pay works.
     
    Posted: Jan 14, 2021 By: RCC Member since: Dec 30, 2020
    #29
  10. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

    26,286 3,218
    To be fair very few employers will have 29 years experience of furlough. At best many have 10 months experience this month.
     
    Posted: Jan 14, 2021 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
    #30
  11. RCC

    RCC UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    11 0
    Not really relevant to my point.
     
    Posted: Jan 14, 2021 By: RCC Member since: Dec 30, 2020
    #31
  12. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

    26,286 3,218
    Yet quite relevant to the surprise. Being in business 29 years is irrelevant to furlough if it's brand new last year.
     
    Posted: Jan 14, 2021 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
    #32
  13. RCC

    RCC UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    11 0
    I don’t get my kicks arguing with strangers on the internet.
    If you think it’s par for the course that neither the man that has been in business for 29 years nor his book keeper can navigate payroll, ok, fine with me.
     
    Posted: Jan 14, 2021 By: RCC Member since: Dec 30, 2020
    #33
  14. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

    14,906 4,021
    It does not matter. It is certainly not illegal to employ casual staff but if they are earning more than £120 per week they have to be put through payroll from day 1 and someone who has been in business for 29 years and employed staff should know that.

    Furlough only came into existence 10 months ago. The rules keep changing. I have far more sympathy with not knowing how furlough works than not knowing how legal employment works.
     
    Posted: Jan 14, 2021 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #34
  15. UKSBD

    UKSBD Not a real duck Staff Member

    10,364 2,057
    Ignoring all the other shenanigans, does anyone have an answer to the question?

    It sounds like the OP's bookkeeper think it should just be based on the amount on the payroll submission.

    Is that correct?

    I would have assumed it depended on how may hours were worked in the period too?

    Otherwise if someone started work late in the period (but still before the new regulations were announced) they may only get Furlough based on a short period rather than their actual contracted hours.
     
    Posted: Jan 15, 2021 By: UKSBD Member since: Dec 30, 2005
    #35
  16. RCC

    RCC UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    11 0
    Contracted hours are contracted hours.
    Zero hours are averages.
     
    Posted: Jan 15, 2021 By: RCC Member since: Dec 30, 2020
    #36
  17. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

    14,906 4,021
    I gave the answer at the end of my first post. The amount you can claim is based on the amount declared to HMRC.
     
    Posted: Jan 15, 2021 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #37
  18. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

    26,286 3,218
    And I don't get my kicks providing or implying bad information.
    The problem isn't payroll - the problem is the far more recent furlough. Experience with payroll appears to not matter when dealing with something that is new.
     
    Posted: Jan 15, 2021 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
    #38
  19. Rapid Eye

    Rapid Eye UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    14 0
    In this paper from HMRC talking about CJRS reference period. Can the reference period be taken from the start of employment (considering employees taken on during October 2020) and therefore be calculated by the hourly pay and agreed hours of employment going forward considering CJRS? cheers Lee
     
    Posted: Jan 15, 2021 By: Rapid Eye Member since: Jan 12, 2021
    #39
  20. UKSBD

    UKSBD Not a real duck Staff Member

    10,364 2,057
    In the calculator it says;

    "If this employee started their employment with you during the pay period, enter the amount they would have received if it was a full pay period."

    I read that as, if they had a contract in mid October saying they were to work 40 hours a week for £X amount, they have created a pay period so the Furlough should be based on the full pay period rather than what Octobers submission said.
     
    Posted: Jan 15, 2021 By: UKSBD Member since: Dec 30, 2005
    #40