How would you deal with this?

Discussion in 'Employment & HR' started by anonuk, Jul 3, 2021.

  1. Owen Parry

    Owen Parry UKBF Newcomer

    32 5
    This is a seldom seen opinion in this thread, that I agree with wholly.

    There are two very straightforward routes here:

    The employee is new and has been there less than two years, you are well within your right to let that employee go for the reasons quoted.

    The second option is to reprimand the employee and to try and set them straight, as put above it's often the case that an employee put on the right track can become a valued member of the team.

    The latter would at the very least avoid having to recruit, which could be the more cost effective (minuis that £3000 of course).
     
    Posted: Jul 6, 2021 By: Owen Parry Member since: Apr 8, 2021
    #41
  2. Stas Lawicki

    Stas Lawicki Contributor

    391 175
    Reprimanding or punishing this individual and demanding they stop the behaviour is treating the symptom, not the cause. No amount of boundary setting or direction will overcome the cause of the tiredness. You are likely to end up with the same result time and time again.

    I can't be the only one who sees this?!
     
    Posted: Jul 6, 2021 By: Stas Lawicki Member since: Nov 14, 2017
    #42
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  3. ctrlbrk

    ctrlbrk UKBF Regular

    208 56
    You're not the only one.

    What I believe Stas is suggesting is that all the options suggested so far are one-way options: employee has done something bad? Tell them or sack them.

    There is no mention of a two-way attempt to understand what's going on. Does the employee have family problems? Did something happen to them that caused them to change behaviour?

    Sometimes, listening is an underrated skill.
     
    Posted: Jul 6, 2021 By: ctrlbrk Member since: May 13, 2021
    #43
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  4. Chris Ashdown

    Chris Ashdown Contributor

    12,350 2,590
    Maybe they are pulling a night shift or late shift at another company
     
    Posted: Jul 6, 2021 By: Chris Ashdown Member since: Dec 7, 2003
    #44
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  5. Stas Lawicki

    Stas Lawicki Contributor

    391 175
    Absolutely. It could be medical, psychological, poor time management, a noisy neighbour - without understanding what 'it' is, they can't determine if they can help fix it, if it's permanent, something that is temporary, etc etc. It's madness to chuck anybody on the heap without attempting to help them overcome a challenge. This could be the employee of the century, or they could be hopeless, one can't know until you investigate further...
     
    Posted: Jul 6, 2021 By: Stas Lawicki Member since: Nov 14, 2017
    #45
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  6. MBE2017

    MBE2017 Contributor

    2,462 981
    Yet the tiredness is just one complaint, you seem to forget the others, watching videos, using mobiles in work time, taking additional lunch hour since they slept through their lunch, etc etc.

    Maybe I am getting old, but as a new starter in my youth, I never went out and got smashed on a work night, I never turned up exhausted, I never took additional time without permission etc. I was offered a job with certain expectations, one of which was being able to do the job I was being paid for correctly. If I had a problem I would talk to my employer honestly.

    Now I know most of the world is going woke, but being a doctor, councillor, psychiatrist and push over was never my idea of being an employer.

    Each to their own.
     
    Posted: Jul 6, 2021 By: MBE2017 Member since: Feb 16, 2017
    #46
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  7. Stas Lawicki

    Stas Lawicki Contributor

    391 175
    I think folk up and down the country look at videos, their phone, have breaks when they should or shouldn't that's almost to be expected these days. But add in the sleeping, which is not normal beahiour, means the other misdemeanours can be forgiven or corrected, but there is clearly something else going on.

    You could take it further and say they might be having medical appointments or seeking help for what ever this problem is. They could be scoring a load of drugs and partying and the dealer is only available during office hours - the op simply doesn't know!

    Rolling all of this into one 'the person needs sacking' is shortsighted. I'm all for consequences of action ( or in action), but i don't feel I need a doctorate or be medically trained to ask somebody in my business what the matter is / offer help with a problem - even if it means referral to specialists. It's not woke, it's called caring.
     
    Posted: Jul 6, 2021 By: Stas Lawicki Member since: Nov 14, 2017
    #47
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  8. ctrlbrk

    ctrlbrk UKBF Regular

    208 56
    Nothing to do with any of that. Good leadership includes being able to understand your people beyond a superficial assessment of their day to day job.

    There's a lot of people between the star performers and the lazy slobs, and they are never given the chance to perform better, often because of poor management from their bosses.
     
    Posted: Jul 6, 2021 By: ctrlbrk Member since: May 13, 2021
    #48
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  9. Fagin2021

    Fagin2021 Full Member
    Contributor

    353 225
    I knew it. I'm in the twilight zone.
     
    Posted: Jul 6, 2021 By: Fagin2021 Member since: Jan 27, 2021
    #49
  10. Stas Lawicki

    Stas Lawicki Contributor

    391 175
    No, no, I don't think you're in the twilight zone. You're just a dinosaur
     
    Posted: Jul 6, 2021 By: Stas Lawicki Member since: Nov 14, 2017
    #50
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  11. Stas Lawicki

    Stas Lawicki Contributor

    391 175
    No, no, you're not in the twilight zone. You're just a dinosaur
     
    Posted: Jul 6, 2021 By: Stas Lawicki Member since: Nov 14, 2017
    #51
  12. Fagin2021

    Fagin2021 Full Member
    Contributor

    353 225
    How can you say that ? You haven't fully investigated the reasons for my post. I may have been traumatised by a previous employment experience. There could be all manner of things troubling me. I really don't think you should jump to conclusions like that.
     
    Posted: Jul 6, 2021 By: Fagin2021 Member since: Jan 27, 2021
    #52
  13. Stas Lawicki

    Stas Lawicki Contributor

    391 175
    It's OK. Being a millenial (nearly) I used my super-woke powers to ascertain the pattern of behaviour you've exhibited in previous posts and deduced this to be the most logical explanation. It's OK - we are all here for you...

    Now if you'll excuse me, I have some crayons to munch on before I meditate... peace
     
    Posted: Jul 6, 2021 By: Stas Lawicki Member since: Nov 14, 2017
    #53
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  14. Fagin2021

    Fagin2021 Full Member
    Contributor

    353 225
    Thank you. I am comforted.
    Incidentally, being called a dinosaur is ok. They roamed the earth for 165 million years while we have only walked upright for a couple of million.
     
    Posted: Jul 6, 2021 By: Fagin2021 Member since: Jan 27, 2021
    #54
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  15. MBE2017

    MBE2017 Contributor

    2,462 981
    You might expect it, I do not see how any employer can tolerate it, otherwise why do most state such behaviour is not tolerated in their staff book? As a decent employer you have to think of everyone’s benefit first and foremost, such behaviour unchallenged would soon lead to a lot of annoyance on the part of decent hard working employees.

    Unfortunately the OP let things get to this stage, when by confronting the issue earlier, they might have nipped things in the bud. Anyway, it’s in their court now.
     
    Posted: Jul 6, 2021 By: MBE2017 Member since: Feb 16, 2017
    #55
  16. Lucan Unlordly

    Lucan Unlordly Contributor

    2,421 467
    When you catch a Burglar ransacking your house do you deal with the symptom or sit him down and question what has caused him to do so?
     
    Posted: Jul 6, 2021 By: Lucan Unlordly Member since: Feb 24, 2009
    #56
  17. ctrlbrk

    ctrlbrk UKBF Regular

    208 56
    Is it sensible to compare the scenario of a person with whom you have a day to day working relationship with that of someone breaking into your house?
     
    Posted: Jul 7, 2021 By: ctrlbrk Member since: May 13, 2021
    #57
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  18. Lucan Unlordly

    Lucan Unlordly Contributor

    2,421 467
    Yes. Hammer to crack a nut for those who cannot see that this employee, outside of already costing the company £3k, has put themselves into a position where the suggested plan of action is to 'rob' the management of their time and patience in order to determine a cause.

    We have massive problems in schools because Teachers spend far too much time trying to manage the attention seeking kid who's antics disrupt the class, the cause of which is something to do with what's going on outside. The argument that these youngsters need support and help is worthy as they find their feet and hopefully learn by their mistakes but should the same apply to an employee who for 3 and a half months showed that they knew better?
     
    Posted: Jul 7, 2021 By: Lucan Unlordly Member since: Feb 24, 2009
    #58
  19. Stas Lawicki

    Stas Lawicki Contributor

    391 175

    That's not entirely accurate - the OP said they were good for 3.5 months. But you are kind of making the argument for finding the root cause and tackling the problem rather than the symptoms. The fact remains, the 5 mins chat to get to the bottom of it may be all that's needed to make a decision on support, dismissal or something else. I don't think anybody is advocating trying to get this employee on Oprah to discuss their issues; it's simply asking the question and ascertaining the correct course of action.

    As for the slightly spurious burglar analogy - you'd only need to look at outreach work, offender rehab and programmes that aim to tackle the root causes of crime to prevent people robbing or thieving. So yes, get to the root problem to understand why somebody is behaving or acting in a certain way (not when you are sitting on them in the living room at 3am - although some might!).
     
    Posted: Jul 7, 2021 By: Stas Lawicki Member since: Nov 14, 2017
    #59
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  20. Lucan Unlordly

    Lucan Unlordly Contributor

    2,421 467
    5 minute chat, fine. Taking on board the employees problems to try and find the cause of behaviour has it's limits.
    Your comparing sponsored and funded projects paid for by government (and the taxpayer) who's social responsibility is to try to make a difference, with the proposal that additional demands and costs are set upon the employer to help this individual to stop taking the p.
     
    Posted: Jul 7, 2021 By: Lucan Unlordly Member since: Feb 24, 2009
    #60