How would you deal with this?

Discussion in 'Employment & HR' started by anonuk, Jul 3, 2021.

  1. Newchodge

    Newchodge Contributor

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    Effectively, yes
     
    Posted: Jul 4, 2021 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #21
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  2. Fagin2021

    Fagin2021 Full Member
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    You're not her doctor, psychiatrist or social worker. And you don't need to huff and puff. If she needs professional help let her get it elsewhere.
     
    Posted: Jul 4, 2021 By: Fagin2021 Member since: Jan 27, 2021
    #22
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  3. ctrlbrk

    ctrlbrk UKBF Regular

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    Some people do not even realise they may need help.

    Managers have a duty of care towards their employees.


    If you are in a position of responsibility, at a minimum you need to try and explore any cause for bad performance.


    Unless, of course, you don't care.
     
    Posted: Jul 4, 2021 By: ctrlbrk Member since: May 13, 2021
    #23
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  4. Stas Lawicki

    Stas Lawicki Contributor

    391 175
    Why couldn't an employer help a member of their team get support? What about being a human and helping another?

    Companies are too quick to write off their staff and ignore their own lack of management or leadership.
     
    Posted: Jul 4, 2021 By: Stas Lawicki Member since: Nov 14, 2017
    #24
  5. Fagin2021

    Fagin2021 Full Member
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    Read my lips. She is taking the piss.

    Read my lips. She is taking the piss.
     
    Posted: Jul 4, 2021 By: Fagin2021 Member since: Jan 27, 2021
    #25
  6. Newchodge

    Newchodge Contributor

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    Possibly, but it is unusual for someone to fall asleep at work. That maybe casued by her failing to go to bed at night or it may have another cause. A good employer would, gently, try to find out if there is something wrong.
     
    Posted: Jul 4, 2021 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #26
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  7. anonuk

    anonuk Contributor

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    Thanks all. It’s not the falling asleep at work that bothers me. As has been said, she’s free to do what she likes in her lunch break (within reason). What bothers me is the fact she went into the admin office where she doesn’t work, sat at one of the managers desks (where there wasn’t, but could have been confidential paperwork) and went to sleep. It’s also the fact that she has to be hunted down and woken up when her lunch break had finished and then took herself off to the shop with some sense of entitlement thinking that she hadn’t ‘had her lunch’ because she was asleep.

    I have spoken to her line manager this morning following all the replies on here, and we have decided that we are going to sit her down on Monday, give her a written warning, and reiterate that one more foot out of line and she’s gone.
     
    Posted: Jul 4, 2021 By: anonuk Member since: Feb 27, 2014
    #27
  8. Fagin2021

    Fagin2021 Full Member
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    "Well, Ms Smith, I couldn't help but notice that you've been indulging in some gentle afternoon snoozes during worktime. Can you tell me why this is?"

    "I was knackered."

    "And why were you knackered?"

    "I'd been up all night snorting coke and drinking gin"

    "I see. Well that certainly explains it. Do you feel this behaviour might be detrimental to your work performance?
    "
     
    Posted: Jul 4, 2021 By: Fagin2021 Member since: Jan 27, 2021
    #28
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  9. SEO Developer

    SEO Developer UKBF Regular

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    Set clear and fair rules and enforce them equally for everyone

    If the sign says no phones at the table, unless the employee has a visual impairment or they don't speak English, it's a verbal warning immediately

    If an employee has health problems refer them to a Mental Health Support Service

    You're running a business not a community centre
     
    Posted: Jul 4, 2021 By: SEO Developer Member since: Jun 8, 2021
    #29
  10. Newchodge

    Newchodge Contributor

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    Bit like that, yes.
     
    Posted: Jul 4, 2021 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #30
  11. Newchodge

    Newchodge Contributor

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    Please make sure that the written warning is specific about what she needs to do to avoid dismissal.
     
    Posted: Jul 4, 2021 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #31
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  12. fisicx

    fisicx Moderator
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    But being too draconian can have a detrimental effect. A caring employer can turn round an underperforming or recalcitrant employee to the benefit of the business and society.
     
    Posted: Jul 4, 2021 By: fisicx Member since: Sep 12, 2006
    #32
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  13. SEO Developer

    SEO Developer UKBF Regular

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    You are right there's no need to be draconian

    But I don't think it's draconian to set fair and clear rules that everyone abides by, and give fair warning when those rules are broken (same as UKBF I'd imagine?) but agree with @Fagin2021 if somebody is continually taking the p*ss then fire them

    If someone has a health issue then refer then to a professionally-qualified person
     
    Posted: Jul 4, 2021 By: SEO Developer Member since: Jun 8, 2021
    #33
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  14. fisicx

    fisicx Moderator
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    But until you know for sure there isn’t an underlying problem firing them may not be the right course of action. If looks like they are taking the mick but we don’t know the whole story. They may not even realise they are breaking the rules.
     
    Posted: Jul 4, 2021 By: fisicx Member since: Sep 12, 2006
    #34
  15. ecommerce84

    ecommerce84 Contributor

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    It’s very unusual behaviour. It may well be that she’s taking the mick, but it could be that somethings going on at home that’s keeping her up at night and she feels unable for whatever reason to tell you about it.

    As she was a promising member of staff when you took her on, I think your plan of action sounds fair. If there is something wrong that you can help her with then she may re-emerge as a good member of staff again.

    If she really is taking the Micky, she’ll soon slip back into that behaviour and you can get rid of her then.

    I also agree with Newchodge that you shouldn’t persue her for a contribution towards costs involved with the accident.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2021
    Posted: Jul 4, 2021 By: ecommerce84 Member since: Feb 24, 2007
    #35
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  16. Fagin2021

    Fagin2021 Full Member
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    I'm having a hard time understanding this. Do you really have to explain to an employee that they shouldn't sleep, watch videos, go shopping, belch, fart or bring your pet grizzly to work?
     
    Posted: Jul 4, 2021 By: Fagin2021 Member since: Jan 27, 2021
    #36
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  17. anonuk

    anonuk Contributor

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    I think part of the problem is that we try to create a friendly easy going atmosphere. If someone wanted to go to the shop (and came and asked), then we likely wouldn’t have an issue but just going without telling anyone and without their managers permission is not acceptable. Playing music through earphones, fine, not a problem. Watching videos on your phone? A whole other story. Going to sleep on your lunch? It’s your lunch, go for it. Going into an office you don’t work in and sleeping at a managers desk? Not ok.

    That’s why I think I’d prefer to go down the written warning approach. Explain what it is they are doing wrong and make it clear what they can and cannot do and see where it goes.
     
    Posted: Jul 4, 2021 By: anonuk Member since: Feb 27, 2014
    #37
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  18. Lucan Unlordly

    Lucan Unlordly Contributor

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    I don't get it?
    My boss once sat in front of me crying that she did not know how to handle a disciplinary problem with a team member who was calling home most lunchtimes using the company landline. 'Home' was Greece! This staff member had been asked, advised, asked again and again, not to do this but she was unable to stop taking the pxxx!
    I really didn't see it, or the OP on this threads problem, as anything other than a sackable offence.
     
    Posted: Jul 4, 2021 By: Lucan Unlordly Member since: Feb 24, 2009
    #38
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  19. MBE2017

    MBE2017 Contributor

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    Totally agree. The OP has decided their course of action, best of luck.

    In future OP ensure everyone, including new starters are aware of acceptable work practices, what can and much more importantly cannot be done. I agree you need to forget the accident which caused you a large financial loss, anyone can claim lack of training, lack of supervision to just an accident, that is the risk of having employees.

    I would suggest you get yourself on an assertiveness course, the time where your employee slept through their lunch hour then took a shopping break since they claimed they had missed their lunch due to being asleep, or watching the videos whilst working, or falling asleep, would have been perfect times to have shown what was acceptable or not. Every time you ignore such problems, you are giving your tacit agreement to the behaviour, and re inforcing it since no consequences occur as a result.

    If a new employee fell asleep and then said they were off for an hours shopping since they had slept through their lunch break, I would have told them fine, but don’t bother returning.
     
    Posted: Jul 5, 2021 By: MBE2017 Member since: Feb 16, 2017
    #39
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  20. Chris Ashdown

    Chris Ashdown Contributor

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    Time to have a Employees handbook made where you outline what is required of your staff, there behaviour, security of personal & company information, health & safety guidelines with disciplinary procedure details and anything else you want to make a point of,
    You may find some basic versions online, and refer to it in your contract of employment
     
    Posted: Jul 5, 2021 By: Chris Ashdown Member since: Dec 7, 2003
    #40
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