How to NOT take on somebody?

Discussion in 'Employment & HR' started by paulears, May 12, 2021.

  1. paulears

    paulears UKBF Legend

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    I suppose I should say this is hypothetical, but draw your own conclusion. I'm looking for 6 people for a ten week project. They'll mostly be technical crew so must have specific skills and 3 or 4 will be self-employed people, drawn from a smallish pool. The others will be hourly paid - and are just useful people but without specific technical skills. In theory, if one needs a day off for a more lucrative contract, I can simply drop in another person. However, post covid, the pool is much smaller. Once the word goes out I know I will get one particular person apply. I don't want them. Back in the early 2000s I was their college lecturer. They have a medical condition that means they need very short notice time off at certain points each month - which cannot be predicted in advance. It is normally just annoying, but now would be a train wreck to deal with. However, not giving her work in the past generates the discrimination explosion. I have always been able to honestly say X has more experience, that is why I need him/her. This excuse (because it was an excuse, really) won't fly this year. It is possible she'd be 100% reliable but I just can't take the huge chip on the shoulder.

    The reality is that a self-employed person with almost guaranteed absence as part of the deal is unacceptable. Sure, everyone has occasional illness, but this (and I checked with the people just prior to covid) is still a current medical condition. If she applies, I really don't want her - but I have no surplus project funds to have an extra one on the crew, just in case of absence. Normally, I'd send a couple of texts and have an absence covered. I know if I don't give her the job what her reaction will be - she's done it to others.

    To the employment experts, is there any safe method of rejecting an application from somebody you simply dare not risk? I'm told she did even try legal response when rejected from a tour - I don't know the outcome. Being very honest - if it helps - she's also abrasive and not good with dealing with the public - which doesn't really impact on her ability to do her specific role, but she is a real stirrer, and normally the crews are cool and chilled out and the job is actually fun. Everything with her is 'ist' or 'ism' and people tend to avoid her. A big burly truck driver refers to her as "darling" - oops. Worse is when somebody with older views sizes her up and the fella standing next to her and gives her the small lighter case to carry and the heavy one goes to the guy with muscles. They also get a mouthful for being sexist or similar. She really is a nightmare - Worse is that out of the regular folk on the list we usually end up with a 50/50 male/female balance, usually simple luck - because of the skill sets. Sound and lights are now happily split. Female riggers are rare and Male chaperones and wardrobe very rare. Stage managers tend to be more female and flymen are rarely girls - there are a few, but usually they do other roles in preference. I've also had already a plea from one of the females who is coming back, asking me not to give work to this person because they can't work with them.

    What do you suggest is the least pain solution?
     
    Posted: May 12, 2021 By: paulears Member since: Jan 7, 2015
    #1
  2. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Legend

    16,065 4,535
    Honesty.
     
    Posted: May 12, 2021 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #2
  3. paulears

    paulears UKBF Legend

    4,983 1,369
    Honesty will mean grief, and that's what I want to avoid. I've never been honest with her - back in college, I casually mentioned one day that this industry might be a problem for her - not her fault, but you're only as good as your last job. She complained. It seems nothing has changed.

    Can I actually say I don't wish to use her because of her track record, which, after all, is caused by a genuine condition?
     
    Posted: May 12, 2021 By: paulears Member since: Jan 7, 2015
    #3
  4. WaveJumper

    WaveJumper UKBF Legend

    2,278 573
    Surely if you don’t deem a person to be the right fit for your team you have every right not to employ them. I would not get too bogged down with this keep it simple other applicants were far more suitable
     
    Posted: May 12, 2021 By: WaveJumper Member since: Aug 26, 2013
    #4
  5. NickGrogan

    NickGrogan Full Member

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    Can you make the role more public facing and therefore less suitable?
     
    Posted: May 12, 2021 By: NickGrogan Member since: Nov 15, 2012
    #5
  6. The Byre

    The Byre Full Member

    11,642 5,055
    By sheer chance, I have a daughter-in-law who has just passed her German master-rigger and stage tech certification. Prior to doing that, she was a roofer - rigging lights for giant rock shows is waaay more fun and far better paid!

    I spent about ten years of my life touring and the crew has to ALWAYS be made of easy-going and pleasant people who muck-in, work hard and are 100% reliable.

    This woman seems to have (according to what you have written) some sort of personality disorder. I would leave her physical condition out of it and tell her that you cannot employ mouthy and unpleasant people. People with personality disorders are born like that and they nearly always stay like that.

    Tell her to get treatment for her personality disorder - then watch the sparks fly! When someone who was born an ******** gets to hear the truth about themselves, it can be quite amusing!
     
    Posted: May 12, 2021 By: The Byre Member since: Aug 13, 2013
    #6
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  7. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Legend

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    You cannot say that you don't want to employ her because of her medical condition - possible discrimination claim. You can, however, and perhaps you should, say that you cannot employ her because she is not a good fit with the rest of the team and you need effective team-working. If she asks why can you point to disruption in the past that is not actually -ist related?
     
    Posted: May 12, 2021 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #7
  8. Owen Parry

    Owen Parry UKBF Newcomer

    32 5
    So you can't not hire based on a disability, this would constitute 'direct discrimination by perception' as in this case it the hypothetical situation that they would not be suitable for this project is perceived. In exceptional situations this can not apply though. I have asked our HR team for a more thorough answer here which I'll post when I get it.
     
    Posted: May 12, 2021 By: Owen Parry Member since: Apr 8, 2021
    #8
  9. Owen Parry

    Owen Parry UKBF Newcomer

    32 5
    Okay so opinion from an accredited professional:

    "This would be a very complicated case, the short answer would be that they couldn’t exclude them from the role based on the medical condition and if they are suitable for the role and the best candidate they should be hired.

    The company has an obligation to make reasonable adjustments, and this would be the case in this situation.

    There may be a case that they can’t do the job because of the condition but the company would need to get a medical opinion on this and go through a particular process called medical capability."


    I mean realistically if you get an application you can just ignore it? However if you were to be honest it would mean pretty much admitting discrimination.
     
    Posted: May 12, 2021 By: Owen Parry Member since: Apr 8, 2021
    #9
  10. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Legend

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    But what if the ability to get on with colleagues is unrelated to a medical condition?
     
    Posted: May 12, 2021 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #10
  11. Owen Parry

    Owen Parry UKBF Newcomer

    32 5
    I mean not hiring someone based on personality and fitability is absolutely fine. I was more tackling the aspect regarding this mentioned illness.
     
    Posted: May 12, 2021 By: Owen Parry Member since: Apr 8, 2021
    #11
  12. AllUpHere

    AllUpHere UKBF Legend

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    Just tell her you don't like her, and don't want to work with her.
     
    Posted: May 12, 2021 By: AllUpHere Member since: Jun 30, 2014
    #12
  13. IanSuth

    IanSuth UKBF Big Shot

    595 165
    Find old emails from her, tell your email system they are spam (all of them) then run your advert (with a deadline date), if you are lucky all her applications and follow ups will go in Spam, but he time she rings to moan at you the project will be resourced/completed, you can then honestly find her application in Spam (you can even screen shot it sat there if need be)
     
    Posted: May 12, 2021 By: IanSuth Member since: Apr 1, 2021
    #13
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  14. NickGrogan

    NickGrogan Full Member

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    Just move it to spam when it comes in if you like.

    Most email systems allow you to block specific email addresses, add hers and you'll never see another email again.
     
    Posted: May 12, 2021 By: NickGrogan Member since: Nov 15, 2012
    #14
  15. WaveJumper

    WaveJumper UKBF Legend

    2,278 573
    And just to give you another sleepless night .............. you never know she might just surprise you and use slow mail. And to make it a proper nightmare it was registered delivery :)
     
    Posted: May 12, 2021 By: WaveJumper Member since: Aug 26, 2013
    #15
  16. paulears

    paulears UKBF Legend

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    Does the conventional rules also cover self-employed contractors? She certainly isn't an employee?
     
    Posted: May 12, 2021 By: paulears Member since: Jan 7, 2015
    #16
  17. MarkOnline

    MarkOnline UKBF Big Shot

    460 158
    The worlds going mad, if shes not the right person dont employ her. I didnt know it was mandatory to give a reason.
     
    Posted: May 12, 2021 By: MarkOnline Member since: Apr 25, 2020
    #17
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  18. nelioneil

    nelioneil UKBF Ace

    701 102
    Its not.

    Its courteous but however, do we expect recruitment agencies (for example) to respond to every job application which runs into the hundreds?
     
    Posted: May 13, 2021 By: nelioneil Member since: Jan 22, 2013
    #18
  19. ctrlbrk

    ctrlbrk UKBF Enthusiast

    245 60

    A reply such as

    We had an overwhelming response to this job opening and unfortunately we have been forced to turn down many excellent candidates.
     
    Posted: May 14, 2021 By: ctrlbrk Member since: May 13, 2021
    #19
  20. paulears

    paulears UKBF Legend

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    It's nowhere near this formal. You put the word out, you get a response saying I'm available, where, when and how much? Sometimes there's some negotiation depending on the role. Usually they also need to know how long payment will be. Sometimes there might be a contract, but frequently, they turn up do the job and email and invoice. Usually there will be time for chat during the day but sometimes they appear and the next time you talk to them is when the truck doors shut. The snag with this one is she'll zing an email as soon as she hears and then I'm stuck because sending another post on the usual sites reveals I'm ignoring here. It's pretty difficult.
     
    Posted: May 14, 2021 By: paulears Member since: Jan 7, 2015
    #20