How much should this employee have been paid?

Discussion in 'Employment & HR' started by Mike in London, Jun 3, 2021.

  1. Mike in London

    Mike in London UKBF Newcomer

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    Hi,

    I briefly employed someone. He started on Monday and also worked Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. It was Good Friday so didn't work, and neither did he work on Easter Monday (or the weekend). He then texted in sick on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. On the following Monday he texted the job wasn't for him. Pay was £10 per hour.

    Mike
     
    Posted: Jun 3, 2021 By: Mike in London Member since: Jun 3, 2021
    #1
  2. AllUpHere

    AllUpHere UKBF Legend

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    You might like to add how many hours he worked.
     
    Posted: Jun 3, 2021 By: AllUpHere Member since: Jun 30, 2014
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  3. Mike in London

    Mike in London UKBF Newcomer

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    Thanks, it was 8 hours a day.
     
    Posted: Jun 3, 2021 By: Mike in London Member since: Jun 3, 2021
    #3
  4. Dannydee

    Dannydee UKBF Newcomer

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    Literally, the total number of hours worked x £10
     
    Posted: Jun 3, 2021 By: Dannydee Member since: Sep 29, 2018
    #4
  5. WaveJumper

    WaveJumper UKBF Legend

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    I am assuming you are asking due to the sickness and my take on this is: The rules are you can get SSP from the fourth day you’re off sick. The days you’re off sick when you normally would have worked are called qualifying days. If the person is eligible, they would get SSP for all their qualifying days, except for the first 3. These are called waiting days. So by my reckoning if you’re going by the book it’s only one day of SSP.

    Not sure what the rules are concerning those bank holidays this may even depend on your employment contract. I am no HR expert, and our forum member Newchodge is the go-to expert for a definitive answer
     
    Posted: Jun 3, 2021 By: WaveJumper Member since: Aug 26, 2013
    #5
  6. Mike in London

    Mike in London UKBF Newcomer

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    Thanks for the answers on SSP. What about Good Friday and Easter Monday? There was no contract as such (I'm new to employing people) should he get any payment for those two bank holidays? Legally I don't have to, right? So it is four days worked plus SSP of 96.35. Kind of resent having to pay someone who only worked 4 days SSP
     
    Posted: Jun 3, 2021 By: Mike in London Member since: Jun 3, 2021
    #6
  7. WaveJumper

    WaveJumper UKBF Legend

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    This is where a contract of employment would have come into play and maybe you will need to think about this for the future to cover yourself i.e. on how you deal with BH and leave. I don’t won’t to give you a half-baked answer on the rules here Newchodge is your best bet and I hope the answer is no you don’t but let’s wait and see what she advice’s
     
    Posted: Jun 3, 2021 By: WaveJumper Member since: Aug 26, 2013
    #7
  8. NickGrogan

    NickGrogan Full Member

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    They'll be entitled to some holiday pay too, I believe.

    Statutory allowance is 28 day per year, so for two weeks, they're entitled to about 1 day, so that's another £80.
     
    Posted: Jun 3, 2021 By: NickGrogan Member since: Nov 15, 2012
    #8
  9. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Legend

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    Plus holiday pay
     
    Posted: Jun 4, 2021 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
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  10. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Legend

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    What were their agreed working hours? If they were expected to work 5 days/week why did they not work the bank holidays?
     
    Posted: Jun 4, 2021 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #10
  11. Mike in London

    Mike in London UKBF Newcomer

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    Thanks for replying. It was a bit fuzzy (lesson learnt!), but I guess we were both from jobs where you didn't come in to work on bank holidays but were still paid for those days.
     
    Posted: Jun 4, 2021 By: Mike in London Member since: Jun 3, 2021
    #11
  12. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Legend

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    Then they should be paid for the bank holidays. So full pay Monday to Monday, SSP (none due Tues Wed Thurs, 1/5th of a week's SSP for Friday. 1.5 day's holiday entitlement, but they would have received 2 day's holiday pay, so no outstanding holiday pay. No contract so you cannot recover the 0.5 holiday paid but not due.
     
    Posted: Jun 4, 2021 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
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  13. UKSBD

    UKSBD Moderator
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    Alternatively.
    Just pay him for the 4 days he worked and see if he says anything.

    A large % of people would probably accept it, if he doesn't, ask him what he thinks he should get.

    If lower than what Cyndy says pay that, if higher, show him the calculations above.
     
    Posted: Jun 4, 2021 By: UKSBD Member since: Dec 30, 2005
    #13
  14. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Legend

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    I assume that, as it is now June and the employee left in April, there has been some pushback!
     
    Posted: Jun 4, 2021 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
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  15. Employment Law Clinic

    Employment Law Clinic Verified Business ✔️

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    Without any TUPE-tranfer or other direct association with the previous employment, I have to admit I don’t understand why Newchodge has suggested bank holidays have to be paid for. There’s nothing I’ve read that suggests there was any agreement to pay for bank holidays, and therefore no reason to infer such a term existed in the contract.


    With no casual mention or specific contract for paid bank holidays, I don’t see any reason why these should be considered as attracting pay, or attracting holidays – they’re simply not working days.


    On my calculations, they would be due something in region of £320 (8 worked hours each day, Mon-Thurs of the first week), £19.27 SSP (calculation according to gov.uk), and £77.25 holiday pay, based on 97% of £80 for just under one day’s worth of holiday pay – this is 12.07% (the rate leave is accrued at) of the 8 paid days of employment.



    Karl Limpert
     
    Posted: Jun 4, 2021 By: Employment Law Clinic Member since: Aug 10, 2009
    #15
  16. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Legend

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    Hi Karl

    There is no contract that state that bank holidays are not working days. There is an agreement to pay for working Monday to Friday. If the employer chooses not to open or offer work to the employee, there is no agreement to change the agreement that they are paid Monday to Friday.
     
    Posted: Jun 4, 2021 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
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  17. Employment Law Clinic

    Employment Law Clinic Verified Business ✔️

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    I'm not convinced about that, at all, Cyndy. To the contrary, I think there is a contract that states bank holidays are not working days.

    Unless the employee attended on the Friday, expecting to work, and/or attended on the Monday, expecting to work, or reported sick on either of these days, I would infer from their lack of attempt to work (or report being absent from work) on these days that they had a clear awareness that there was no work on bank holidays.

    (Perhaps there was a passing comment at the end of the Thursday, along the lines of “See you Tuesday”, I don’t know; it appears there was an awareness of the bank holidays being days off though, as no stated attempt to work them above.)

    That awareness of bank holidays being off says nothing about the pay for these dates though.



    Karl Limpert
     
    Posted: Jun 4, 2021 By: Employment Law Clinic Member since: Aug 10, 2009
    #17
  18. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Legend

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    Where?
     
    Posted: Jun 4, 2021 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #18
  19. Employment Law Clinic

    Employment Law Clinic Verified Business ✔️

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    The same place as the terms that say the employee works Mon-Fri, gets paid £10 ph, has 28 days leave: agreed between them, with nothing in writing, and only minimal terms inferred as necessary to form an employment contract.


    Karl Limpert
     
    Posted: Jun 4, 2021 By: Employment Law Clinic Member since: Aug 10, 2009
    #19
  20. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Legend

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    But the employer's expectation appears to be that they would pay them

    OP, I forgot. Was the sickness absence covid-related?
     
    Posted: Jun 4, 2021 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #20