Help with interview process?

Discussion in 'Employment & HR' started by anonuk, Jul 16, 2020.

  1. anonuk

    anonuk UKBF Regular Free Member

    302 44
    Up to now we have generally employed family and friends which has meant we haven’t needed to worry about interviews etc.

    We are now getting to a point where we need to employ someone in the conventional way but having never performed an interview before, I was wondering if there’s any organisation out there (other than recruitment agencies) that assist with interviews/the recruitment process?
     
    Posted: Jul 16, 2020 By: anonuk Member since: Feb 27, 2014
    #1
  2. AstEver

    AstEver UKBF Regular Free Member

    116 25
    Plenty of HR consultants and advisors but most of them follow the same broken process around competency logic.
     
    Posted: Jul 16, 2020 By: AstEver Member since: Jan 10, 2019
    #2
  3. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

    25,262 3,074
    Recruitment agencies will be glad to help. For a fee.
    You never have to worry about interviews. Unless you want to.

    It is a good idea to learn - among other things you may decide spending a few grand is not worth it.
     
    Posted: Jul 17, 2020 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
    #3
  4. The Byre

    The Byre UKBF Legend Full Member

    10,481 4,414
    The interview -

    1. Can this person do the job? (A test task may be in order here.)
    2. Do I like this person and is he/she easy to get along with?
    3. Is this person intelligent and quick on the uptake?
    4. Any danger signs emerging such as boasting, bigging themselves up or name-dropping?
    5. Personal issues such as problems with partner or debt problems (care needed here, as these are sensitive issues and may only come out later).

    Then you give the candidate a trial period of a day, a week, and then three months. After that, it's normal employment.

    The one thing I have never cared about was qualifications - the best coder I have ever come across walked off his college course after a few weeks when he realised that he knew more than the profs or the lecturers. Today he is a multimillionaire with a major media software company.

    A friend of mine hired his latest tech because he could falt-find faster than anyone else. After a year he discovered that the guy happened to have an HND in electronics. It just was never a question that came up.
     
    Posted: Jul 17, 2020 By: The Byre Member since: Aug 13, 2013
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  5. Nico Albrecht

    Nico Albrecht UKBF Enthusiast Full Member - Verified Business

    857 174
    Couldn't agree more here. These days even a monkey can get a bachelor. In the past the higher their degree the more useless they were for hands on work in their field. There are of course expectations to that.

    For spotting tidiness and attention to details I always check their car if they come in one. By just looking at the inside and check general condition like tires it tells you a lot about them. Could be just me doing it but I found clean well maintained cars tell you a lot of a person's character.
     
    Posted: Jul 17, 2020 By: Nico Albrecht Member since: May 2, 2017
    #5
  6. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

    25,262 3,074
    Note to self, take a hire car when interviewing with Nico.
     
    Posted: Jul 17, 2020 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
    #6
  7. Nico Albrecht

    Nico Albrecht UKBF Enthusiast Full Member - Verified Business

    857 174
    To easy to spot, they have barcodes on them to scan in and out and most likely a sticker on the fuel flap. You ain't fool Nico here. It tells you a lot about a person how he treats his own property and attention to detail.
     
    Posted: Jul 17, 2020 By: Nico Albrecht Member since: May 2, 2017
    #7
  8. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

    25,262 3,074
    Yeah, errr…. my car is in the garage that day... honest. :)
    Seriously I don't care about the car. 16 years old, a few dings in it, still runs.
     
    Posted: Jul 17, 2020 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
    #8
  9. The Byre

    The Byre UKBF Legend Full Member

    10,481 4,414
    Another is spelling - tyres! (And I managed to spell fault - falt!)
     
    Posted: Jul 17, 2020 By: The Byre Member since: Aug 13, 2013
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  10. NicoJ

    NicoJ UKBF Regular Free Member

    286 50
    Interesting. I don't care about my car, it gets me from A to B and that's it. I do care about my job. My car is a mess, my desk (& my work) is not. Just to offer a different insight.
     
    Posted: Jul 17, 2020 By: NicoJ Member since: Mar 27, 2017
    #10
  11. anonuk

    anonuk UKBF Regular Free Member

    302 44
    Thanks guys, lots to think about.

    There are two reasons why I don't want to use an employment agency - firstly, in my experience when I was looking for employment, I felt that most of them advertise jobs that don't exist just to get people on their books (obviously not true for all). The second reason is I want to be involved in the interview process but just not done it before. I don't want an employment agency to do an interview and send me someone they THINK will be a good fit. I need to make that decision on my own.

    I too don't care about qualifications. I would much rather have someone with a little bit of experience but who's worth investing time in. Someone who's got common sense and that will grow with the company as the company grows.

    As I mentioned, at present we only have friends and family working here on a part time basis. It's worked well to a point, but I must admit I find it difficult to pull them up when errors are made. I also feel like the family members in particular don't take the job seriously which can be shown by fact that if they book a holiday, I get 'oh, I'm not in next Friday because I'm going away' rather than asking for time off.
     
    Posted: Jul 17, 2020 By: anonuk Member since: Feb 27, 2014
    #11
  12. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

    14,675 3,937
    Start by defining exactly what the employee will be doing. Break it down into component parts. Walk yourself through the imaginary employee's day - open post, pass to right person, make tea, design inter-ballistic missile, that sort of thing.

    Once you have clear in your head what they will be doing, allocate to every part of the job what personal attributes they need to do that.

    Open post - manual dexterity
    allocate to right person - ability to read, memory of who is who

    Then you will have a list of the personal attributes you are looking for. Known as a person specification.

    For each element of the person spec decide how you will test for it

    Ability to drive - see driving licence and check for points
    (for example)

    Eventually you will have a plan for an interview. It takes time to do properly but it is worthwhile.
     
    Posted: Jul 17, 2020 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #12
  13. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

    25,262 3,074
    Can be useful to look at similar type jobs and see what qualities, what specification other businesses come up with.
    And modify to suit yourself.
     
    Posted: Jul 17, 2020 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
    #13
  14. NickGrogan

    NickGrogan UKBF Ace Full Member

    2,605 626
    Why would they do this, what's the benefit?
     
    Posted: Jul 17, 2020 By: NickGrogan Member since: Nov 15, 2012
    #14
  15. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

    25,262 3,074
    People on the books.

    Its an old trick used for decades.

    Wife applied for one 4 years ago, advertised in the window. When she went in and registered with the agency they told her she didn't have the experience necessary (bearing in mind 90% plus of the temp staff in that line of work have no experience when starting, she had several years) for that job.
    She applied for a similar sounding job 10 minutes later elsewhere and got that one - turned out the employer only used 3 agencies, they did not use the one she had first registered with.
     
    Posted: Jul 17, 2020 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
    #15
  16. NickGrogan

    NickGrogan UKBF Ace Full Member

    2,605 626
    OK, that the theory. But where is the benefit to the company?

    Where are they making money from more people on the books?
     
    Posted: Jul 17, 2020 By: NickGrogan Member since: Nov 15, 2012
    #16
  17. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

    25,262 3,074
    If you are on the books and a job comes in that you do fit and does exist - they can send you. If you work then they make money.

    If you aren't on the books they cannot send you. No money as a result of you working.

    Client rings up, let down by another agency. They need 50 new starters for night work with parcels starting Monday night. If you don't have a lot of people on your books you can call.... you turn down a job paying a lot of money?
     
    Posted: Jul 17, 2020 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
    #17
  18. AstEver

    AstEver UKBF Regular Free Member

    116 25
    You can follow the usual recruitment process but implementing it differently is important.

    1. The need - define what your business needs, or rather what the business willl need
    in the near future. With a proper business strategy and HR strategy it should be simpler to define.
    2. Who - what person can help you accomplish the business goals? Think about personality traits, skills, life and work experience, motivation, IQ, milieu, values, potential, etc.
    3. Offer - what do you offer as employer, what is your employee value proposition? You want the best person who you can find and afford. Think in a way a marketing person thinks about customers. HR can benefit a great deal from Marketing.
    4. Communication - write a job description and person ‘specification’ but again as if you were a marketer trying to win great clients taking into consideration who you are looking for, whether the labour market is tight or not, competition fighting for the same talent, etc. There are many factors to consider.
    5. Channel - Marketing can help here again. You can segment the labour market and select communications channels to reach the potential candidates.
    6. Application - applying through sending CV, covering letter, application form, exercise, video presentation, portfolio ...
    7. Interview - please don’t ask competency questions :) This is a huge topic. See point 1 on what to look for. You don’t have to stop at interview. Let’s not forget that people are bad judges of character.
    8. Selection ...
    9. Talent management (performance management, development, learning, progression, etc.) again a huge topic.

    To add to other advice given above, in my opinion, qualification matters a great deal but it is only one of many factors that one takes into consideration.
    The use of application forms depends on who you are looking for. As an example, forms can be used when looking for administrators but not for creative people as they most likely will not apply as they hate filling in forms.

    Employees are expensive and wrong employees can damage your business. And with great employees you can win.
     
    Posted: Jul 17, 2020 By: AstEver Member since: Jan 10, 2019
    #18
  19. The Byre

    The Byre UKBF Legend Full Member

    10,481 4,414
    Dwight D Eisenhower must have been thinking of you when he wrote "Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil and you're a thousand miles from the cornfield."

    There are qualifications and qualifications and TBH, most modern university degrees I get to see today are what is known in German as an 'Armutszeugnis' - a certificate of poverty!

    It's not just Media Studies any more, there are so many bogus degrees and certificates that it will make your head spin - the REALITY is that some degrees are worth having, whereas a degree in the same subject but from a different university is worse than worthless. Having a degree in Music Technology or Drama from a former polytechnic tells any good and sensible employer that the candidate is a fool who takes the easy way out.

    This is a subject close to my heart because on coming to the UK, I had no idea that qualification-inflation had taken hold to such an extent. There are some 130+ courses in Music Technology, but only 50 recording studios - and only ONE qualification worth having. There are about 150 film/TV courses but only ONE qualification worth having. Music - two worth having. Drama - ONE.

    Add to that all sorts of bogus private 'schools' that offer bogus courses in anything and everything and of course a certificate or scroll to nail to the lavatory door.

    One of the best electronics engineers I know never went near formal education in electronics. One of the best pianists I know left school at 14.

    When I was working with EMAP Business Publishing, some idiot consultant told management that they need to check on the qualifications of their staff. Boy, were they in for a surprise - the degree claimed by their top salesman turned out to be fictitious. The editor of a prestigious weekly news mag did not have an MA after all! Their best layout designer turned out to have dropped out of art college. And so on, all the way down the line!

    They learned two important lessons -

    1. If you pay attention to qualifications, you will miss the best people.

    2. Don't listen to consultants.
     
    Posted: Jul 18, 2020 By: The Byre Member since: Aug 13, 2013
    #19
  20. AstEver

    AstEver UKBF Regular Free Member

    116 25
    I agree that holding a qualification does not guarantee earning a lot of money and it is linked to the qualification inflation that you mentioned.

    I also agree that there are fields of study that do not contribute to business career and that there are fields which are bogus, like grievance studies.

    The anecdotes you mentioned are true but extrapolating them to whole society is not a convincing argument.

    I am also very critical about today’s mass high education, its quality and usufelness and I expressed it on the forum in the past. I argued that if one wants knowledge they can gain it for a fraction of tuition fees from books and online resources. The problem is that not everyone is capable of developing scientific approach without scientists’ guidance.

    I suspect that most people would not like to be treated by doctors, or have bridges designed and built by people who say that they learned how to do it themselves at home.


    This is why I wrote that qualification is not the only factor to consider. It is neither necessary. Does it not matter for an employer? It does. For example, it is safe to presume for an employer that the candidate with a degree has potential for learning and development, can postpone gratification, can think long term, can apply scientific methods, has enough IQ, can be diligent, can work hard, can sacrifice resources, can read and write, etc.

    And If the qualification is closely related to the position offered by the employer the benefits are obvious.

    Tell that to the companies who pay millions for consulting services from McKinsey, Bains, BCG, Deloitte and so forth.
     
    Posted: Jul 18, 2020 By: AstEver Member since: Jan 10, 2019
    #20