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Discussion in 'General Business Forum' started by esco, Jun 5, 2010.
If what you say is true than fair play to you. Those are some impressive reading stats.
Don't pretend like you know me, just from reading a few mails I wrote in this thread.
Some people make me laugh on this site.
Yep some people make me laugh too!
Lighten up guys. The weekend is almost upon us so I'll tell you a story from my younger days when money was tight.
Like most east end Londoners and at the age of about 17 a favourite weekend away in summer was a trip to Southend. All those girls wearing 'kiss me quick' hats if you know what I mean. Anyway me and my mate pulled and we had a good old jolly up on the beech around a camp fire until we all crept off with our girl.
Now to be aboslutely honest I didn't get what all the fuss was abnout at that age when it came to sex. In fact I thought it was sweaty and messy affair and I was somewhat more concerned about me new Burton suit. ( 3 button Italiano style and double fart flaps of course )
Anyway. So I take me jacket off and fold it neatly and put it on a wooden pillar sticking up out of the pepples - then pants down and I get on with it and boy oh boy. This time it was just like the movies with a big wave coming up and drenching us at the appropriate moment. Then another - and another. Then I realised me trousers around me angle's were bloody soaking wet as the wves came lapping up all around us.
Man oh man did I swear as I tried to sqeeze water out not wanting to wring them like a piece of old rag. Not much joy there so time to return to the fire I thought and see if I could dry them out a bit there - THEN I looked around for me jacket.
It had long gone. Floated out see sea.
Even worse. I only picked the suit up the day before and I still had a bloody years hire purchase payments to make on it.
Be careful then boys & girls if youi ever have the romantic urge to make love on the beech.
I have a friend who buys and sells property, even now. Even now he has just sold one for a £30k profit. Just thought i would bring this up, moving back to the car post. He was in a similar position, he started his working life as an apprentice builder, gained years of experience, made alot of contacts within the trade, i mean a hell of alot of contacts, plumbers, electricians, plasterers, joiners etc. He buys property from people or banks, dont know the exact details, but people who have fallen behind with payments and have to sell. Doing this he gets them for well under what there worth, spends a little to freshen them up and then moves them on, if electrics need doing, he rings one of his mates (that he met along the way in his career). He now sells probably 3-4 a year and earns £100,000+ , whilst also doing bits and bobs freelance (im sure cash in hand )
The reason i bring this up is he is very successful now, earning £100,000+ and he only started with buying a small 3 bed semi for £35,000 and selling it for £70,000 and spent £5,000 doing it up. He used his skills to do all the work himself, used his contacts he had built up to get materials at dirt cheap prices. If he was not experienced he would have probably paid more for materials, paid for labour of tradesmen etc and that would have cut his profits in the project.
My advice to you would be set something up, or buy into something you have a passion for or have experience in and that will help you become a success in your first venture. You cant just randomly pick an industry and say you are going to set up a chain of them, with no prior experience.
Just my 2p!
Good Post Jason and it illustrates 3 things.
1) Unless an investment opportunity comes along where the company can expect to enjoy substantial net profits any small investor that thinks that they can be a silent partner and just sit back and watch the money come rolling in from investing in a small business is living in cloud cuckoo land.
Two partners in a MOT station for example couldn't realistically be expect to pay an investor a good ROI. There would be little if any surplus profits. At best. There would only be a good living in it only for the 2 of them and possibly put aside a little dosh for a rainy day.
Likewise - as I have said before and am tired of repeating - a small grocery store or newsagents can only provide a living wage for a working couple or working owner with maybe a few part-time staff. You can't just buy one of these shops for under £100K and expect to earn a good ROI under and after paying for management.
2) Your friend Jason is a man after my own heart in that he got out there and did the research by meeting people and gaining experience. You can't meet people or get hands on experience by doing a Google search and those contacts are all important - especially as the years roll by.
I met a young 19 year PC plod for instance many more years ago than I care to remeber outside the Kursal at Southend on Sea where a bunch of yobs were throwing abuse at him and the poor chap didn't have the experience to deal with it. Anyway having a great deal of respect for the queens uniform that I have and being a bit older and been involved in more than a few scaps down at the Royal in Tottenham I stepped in.
The pair of us then were enough then to see the yobs off and we have been friends ever since during which time my pal did well for himself. That shy pc plod soon went through the ranks. Through becoming head of the firearms support unit and he recently retired as a very senior police officer where one of his tasks was to sit on the county civil defence committee.
Now he is coming to work for me as a non-executive director because his experience will prove extremely useful to me in my new business. A top class man then. The cost just £6K a year and my pal is more than happy with that.
The bottom line here is that you have to get out there in real life to make those contacts as your friend did Jason because they are really are worth their weight in gold. Literally and even more so as friends than business associates.
3) And this again is all important and that is timing. As a former mortgage broker up until the mid 1990's I too could find property at far less than the market value. A lot of the time by getting the nod about a planned repossession from one of the many building society managers and solicitors that I knew and enjoyed many a pub lunch with.
I bought an 18th century country cottage on a village green for example after getting a nod from a solicitor contact who as well as coveyancing also specialised in probate. He informed me that the Crown had instructed hime to sell the property as there were there were no beneficiaries. Yea right. There was one. Cost me just £45K and a couple of tickets for Lords for my mate JWC. Spent £10K on it and it was then valued at £145.
I mention all this because times have changed dramatically since those days and while your friend Jason may be well placed - anyone entering the business now would find it extremely hard to earn a living and indeed could get their fingers badly burned.
The days of pub lunches and those nods for instance have long gone. Building society managers now have no power. Everything is dealt with by head office and repo's now put out to public tender or have to be sold at auction due to transpareny rules.
At auction there is now still competition from wannabe developers and small landlords looking for buy to let pushing up prices often to well over reserve and market value so even professional property developers and builders are finding it hard to find any suitable property they can make a profit on - and now there is even more bad news for them.
This new government ( what with many ministers being countryside protectionists ) have already given blanket instructions to local planning officers that they should refuse consent on back gardens that are hived off. So it's not just property near green belt. That ban they are saving for a ban on wind turbines. What;s the bet Cameron and Co have an intrest in building nuke power stations. Whatever.
The point is that making a living on property development these days is strictly for the time served pros like your friend Jason.
Not being a professional property developer myself incidentally is why my holding company is selling off a small 3 acre gated private country estate in Scotland for around £125K as the planning consent has run out. I have no doubt in this case it will be renewed but at about £7K for PC & Warrant I am prepared to offload the place for a quick sale and get on with my new biz.
just thought that I would mention that.
Many, many issues here. £62k is sadly not a lot of money and looking back at these posts there are some good points that need to be born in mind - firstly you won't build your business by working 30-40 hours per week - more like 70-80. If you are looking at a general store/newsagent you will find yourself at the cash and carry most days, you will need to open long hours to compete with the multiples, you will need to buy the stock - the one you saw at £90k odd will also be + SAV (stock at valuation) and you will need money to manage cash-flow and your living costs. There will also be legal costs, rent deposits etc. If you were determined to get this one for example, then forget the lease that expires in 2 years and make a silly offer, based upon a new 15 year lease; remember it's a buyer's market. But do nothing till you have done all of your research. Look at the accounts of any business you are buying, and look for things such as Drawings if it's a sole trader or partnership, and wages/salaries/directors emoluments if it's a company. £50k net profit might look good but if it's run by a family they may not have any wage bill, whereas I guarantee you will. You will need to understand exactly what your annual running costs will be and work out from that how much your turnover will need to be, as well as your gross margin (critical). Lots to consider and my advice would be to find someone you trust who really knows about the pitfalls of business.
Does it have to be a general store/newsagent type business?
What about some of the franchise opportunities around that are a bit different? There was a guy coming to our business park recently that had bought in to a mobile sandwich van franchise. Maybe with your sort of money you could have a few of them going. Maybe you'd end up like Duncan Bannantyne!
yeah I've thought about this before.
There used to be a guy not too far from my old workplace who had a hot food stand, where he used to sell mainly hot potatoes. Well after a few weeks/months I built a bit of a rapport with him, and he told me the stand makes about £8k net profit a year (after taking his own 'wage' from the profits). I asked him why he doesn't open a few more, he said he's going to retire soon and doesn't need the hassle. He said it costs about £2k to buy the hot food stand, and it costs about £800 a year to be able to use/lease the 'land/area' to be able to sell the food. He used to have a part time worker who used to come in every day during the busy lunch period, the rest of the day he could manage himslef. It was very popular and at lunch the queue at lunch used to be often 20 people long.
Trouble is most places or hot spots have already been taken and have hot food stands there already. If I knew or found a place I would be very tempted into putting my own hot food stand there, as setting up/running costs wouldn't be all that great, and if I had 4-5 of these and they each made £5k a year......that would be a good first step into the business world.
Maybe go along to one of the Franchise exhibitions that are held in the UK. It might open your eyes to some options you would not otherwise have considered.
When you've saved that amount of money you don't want to rush in to a decision.
Yeah. thanks for links.
And tbh if there's one thing I've defo learnt from this thread, thats to not rush into anything. Which is what I'm going to do.
If you are still seeking a profitable business venture then you may be interested in what I have available. Based in the West Midlands as well, I might add.
I have a range of products, with proven pedigree, that will make in excess of 300k+ per annum on the internet alone. Added to this, a substantial order book, overseas rights, and over 100 prestige central London retail outlets.
I am seeking substantial investment expansion capital / working or sleeping partner, who can expect guaranteed 50k+ returns every year.
Unlike a lot of the daydreamers you will come across here, I can provide substantial proof of earnings, and much more.
My products have been featured on national television, newspapers and magazines worldwide, and are guaranteed to amaze.
PM me if interested in further details as I dont want to discuss with every Tom, **** and Harry. If not, then good luck with your search for a business utopia!
You did read that he only has £62,000 right? I wouldn't quite call that substantial investment capital.
If all of the above is true, then why do you need an investor?
how about £15,000+vat. roi in 4 months
Depends what figure you have available to invest. The returns are certainly there to accommodate that roi - within the time span mentioned - quite easily . . . even double or triple that if you are committed enough. But how many people are serious on here; as opposed to the numerous browsers and surfers who are simply 'curiosity seekers'. I wonder.
I say again - why do you need an investor?
To "The Trading Post" who asks me: "why do you need an investor". . . . twice.
It is exactly because of people like you that this forum is futile in many respects. Why does anyone need an investor? . . . simply because they are unable to attain the required capital anywhere else. Is that not blatantly obvious?
In my case it is irrelevant that I can show high and sustained sales figures for the last 10 years. As I would be effectively taking my business to the next 'level', banks are primarily concerned with new venture risks (I would be adding a new unusual product to my lines which will obviously have no 'track record', exploring overseas markets and rights, and also investing heavily in internet marketing and transition, having had a modicum of success with a basic crap site to date).
Add to the above the current economic climate, and trying to get 100k -150k from a bank is equivalent to a stone bleeding blood.
Business Angels are long, protracted, and pure money spinners for the organisers, plus full of wanabees who expect far too much say for their input. I want to get on with things now - not 6 months+ down the line.
Its far too much to borrow on a loan, friends and family have not got that kind of investment as many are also feeling the economic crunch and have negative equity properties . . . or lost jobs.
Hence my exploring private investment. I have a lot to offer the right person, particularly one that can contribute to certain aspects of my business.
I hope that answers your question, but somehow I doubt it. You strike me as one of the numerous people on here that raise more questions than answers, and in many ways deliver a negative response to the many genuine people who post on here not just for some advice, but in many instances are seeking a source of inspiration. They would not receive that from you.
Should you post a reply please do not expect it to be reciprocated. I have far more important matters that a one sided repartee.
why don't you buy an online business. There are a lot of established websites you could get for 50k that make steady income - 3-4k net profit/month with just a couple of hours work a day. Invest the remaining amount and you could bring the site to make 5-6k or even better.
Find an established website/forum/blog in a niche that stirs you interest or something that you already have an idea about.
If you dance around it forever or waste your time on forums you won't realize anything.
Just my 2 pennies.
I shall respond anyway.
If you have sustained high levels of profit over ten years then you will either have £100k or be able to borrow from your bank no problem at all, banks are lending and if you have an established profitable business then you won't have a problem.
I am thinking of buying a new car and with the low rates available from my bank I will borrow a chunk of the money.
What is your current business? Assuming that it exists then you will find me less cynical, but at the moment you are one of the dreamers that you so clearly have no time for.