Has the general public got any clue about SEO

[UKSBD]

I don't really do SEO for anyone else anymore, but as an experiment set a little form up for people to enquire about SEO services.

I just asked a few basic questions, their URL, what they considered their 3 main keywords and their monthly budget (never asked about set up budget, but in hindsight should have)

This is just an example of enquiries received from past couple of weeks

Key1: Intruder Alarms (area)
Key2: CCTV Systems (area)
Key3: Access Control (area)
Budget: 20.00
----------------------
Key1: Distance Learning
Key2: Healthcare Courses
Key3: First Aid
Budget: 25.00
-----------------------
Key1: debt management
Key2: sell my house fast, sell my house quickly
Budget: 10
----------------------
Key1: driving lessons hinckley
Key2: automatic driving hinckley
Budget: 5
---------------------
Key1: Jobs in Football
Key2: Football Coaching
Key3: Academy Jobs
Budget: 50
-----------------------
Key1: EMBROIDERY
Key2: TEE SHIRT
Key3: GRAPHICS
Budget: 10
----------------------
Key1: letting agents in edinburgh
Key2: letting agents
Key3: property management
Budget: 10.00
------------------------
Key1: homecrafts
Key2: quilts, cushion, aprons
Budget: 50
------------------------
Key1: Oak Furniture
Key2: Indoor Furniture
Budget: 30.00/35.00
------------------------
Key1: flat roof repairs
Key2: roof repairs
Budget: 50
------------------------

I think it shows the importance of finding out peoples budgets before wasting any time on them.

 

[RedEvo]

I would suggest most business people are confused at best and by enlarge clueless. This is why the less than scrupulous SEO companies prosper. They play on it.

We prefer to educate but I know we lose work as a result of 'telling it like it is'.

d

 

[harryboon]

totally clueless if you ask me

 

[SEO Lady]

The general public are clueless - even when I get asked what I do for a living I prefer to say 'Online Marketing' as SEO takes too long to explain to a confused face.

Also, I agree UKSBD, people have no idea about budget - thinking that a £10 adwords spend a month is adequate.

I spoke to a potential claint last month who had been using Adwords for 18 months that he set up himself and did not have one conversion. Spend? £500. It took the client 18 months before asking for Adwords help - 18 months - for me it would be 18 minutes!

 

[S-Marketing]

From my point of view, as a marketing consultant, I would say that in general business owners and the general public are pretty clueless to what marketing is generally.

When I have a first meet with a new client I spend at least half of my time explaining what marketing is. Usually to a lot of responses such as ' wow, you can help us with that, I thought marketing was just another word for advertising'.

I'd imagine its very similar in the world of SEO, with even people who think they are clued up thinking there is nothing much to it, other than getting some keyword based meta tags sorted.

 

totally clueless if you ask me

Not so sure I agree.

Every time I explain to people that I make people lots of money,they seem to understand.

Earl

 

[SEO Lady]

Not so sure I agree.

Every time I explain to people that I make people lots of money,they seem to understand.

Earl

I like that! Can I use that?

 

[eventdomain]

I think it shows the importance of finding out peoples budgets before wasting any time on them.

That's a risky attitude to take, as people rarely disclose their full spending power, until they suss you out. So dropping them before you've even given them the vital information they need, means you just lost a sale.

Hence the one that stated they only had a £10 SEO budget. You don't think that was porkys do you... Why lie about a £10 budget, its doesn't make sense, unless they feel its none of your business what their budget is, and I feel the same way.

Asking what someone's budget is, is just so intrusive.

 

[RedEvo]

Not so sure I agree.

Every time I explain to people that I make people lots of money,they seem to understand.

Earl

Do you EXPLAIN IN CAPS?



d

 

[RedEvo]

That's a risky attitude to take, as people rarely disclose their full spending power, until they suss you out.

I don't agree. In my view it's very important to give people a feel for the kind of budget they will need if they want to hire you.

d

 

[eventdomain]

I don't agree. In my view it's very important to give people a feel for the kind of budget they will need if they want to hire you.

d

There's a certain point people will pay upto, suggest going beyond that figure and they won't. Trouble is, you won't know what that is, and that's why the advantage is always with the buyer.

Its about worth, perception decides on what you make a lot of the time - this is the internet, and its tough selling from a faceless website, and people dont always want to or have the time to spend in a 2 hour meetiing, and won't want to for some types of service.

 

[eventdomain]

Yeah, I know....... but by using that weeding out tactic, it ends up making them all feel like time wasters, when many may be genuine clients.

I always take the view that todays start-up is tommorrows big cheese, and I treat all my clients the same, regardless of advert budget. You never know the guy with only £200 to spend, has something that could be worth millions in 5 years time, and you just pi**ed him off by not doing the job for £200. So you may have got your £2000 fee, but long-term how much did you truly lose?

I'd rather not turn away a £100 sale, for fear of looking unprofessional, when I could have helped someone out easily. I view it as gaining a long-term client over losing a one-time fee prospect that never returns bcos he feels he's been overcharged.

 

[RedEvo]

Most people reading this thread know exactly what I mean.

d

 

[eventdomain]

Most people reading this thread know exactly what I mean.

d

I used to own an offline biz in 2002, was making £25 an hour, but the area I was in was so saturated that I had to sometimes take on work at £15 an hour to get the clients.

 

[Matt1959]

no of course the public dont have a clue about SEO, why should they have:|
perhaps its a sign that the seo fraternity should be doing a better job of educating them

 

[RedEvo]

no of course the public dont have a clue about SEO, why should they have:|
perhaps its a sign that the seo fraternity should be doing a better job of educating them

The basics (and not so basics) of SEO are very very simple. One key aspect of SEO is the need for a good website, this is the bit many businesses don't get. They fail to understand why their thirty bob website isn't number one in Google and close themselves off from the hard fact that they need to do some work.

I think this is the fundamental problem.

d

 

[UKSBD]

no of course the public dont have a clue about SEO, why should they have:|
perhaps its a sign that the seo fraternity should be doing a better job of educating them

It's not so much the fact they don't have a clue about SEO, more the fact they think they can be on the front page of google for such a low ammount.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

no of course the public dont have a clue about SEO, why should they have:|
perhaps its a sign that the seo fraternity should be doing a better job of educating them

I'm not sure I agree. Why should the public ever care about SEO?

As for business owners, if they want to chase a next-to-free lunch, they're always going to have problems.

I've said this before, but if someone can SEO a site for valuable SERPS in a day, why would they charge £250 for it?

Why not slap up their own site instead and stick affiliate links on it and make that amount each week?

Good SEO comes at a price. It couldn't be any other way.

Steve

 

[headshotlondon]

I do not think anyone know much about it. In fact it is quite specialised profession that involves quite a lot of technical knowledge, a lot of reading and constant need to keep up with current updates on the net. I must admit that more and more people understand the importance of it, i.e. importance of being on the first page. Not more than that really.

 

[Matt1959]

I think the reference to public was actually a reference to business owners, I might be wrong - certainly the questionaire quoted seemed to relate to business owners.

So have business owners got any clue about seo? not much it seems for alot of them and I guess my point was that how can one expect these owners to know about it in the same way as to know about any other form of specialised marketing unless 1) you are professional enough to make it your business to find out or 2) you develope an interest in the subject. If you are just floating along treating marketing as a necessary evil, chances are, you'll never know it exists:| I can say honestly if it wasn;t for internet forums, I wouldnt have a clue what it was or how necessary it was to have for certain businesses - internet forums are definately not everyones cup of tea though....

 

[eventdomain]

Large and medium sized businesses have in-house people that do this for them. The small sole-traders, one-man-bands won't have.

Many don't have this luxury and simply cannot afford expensive SEO fees, and this ties in with why we have thousands of websites stuck at No 300 of the SERPS.

Ofcourse, I'd suggest that when companies hire designers, they get the SEO for free, or greatly reduced as part of the overall fee, and thats the correct way to do it on a low budget, and so many dont have the significant budget required to win at the SEO game, so cannot compete with the big corporates that spend £10'000 a pop to own the top spots.

So if they spend so much on SEO and Advertising, they dont need to know anything - they just hire in.

 

Large and medium sized businesses have in-house people that do this for them. The small sole-traders, one-man-bands won't have.



Ofcourse, I'd suggest that when companies hire designers, they get the SEO for free, or greatly reduced as part of the overall fee,.

1.fortunately in the world of SEO its often the case that to many cooks spoil the broth.

2.You must be kidding,anyone can design a website to greater or lesser standards.

There are very few quality SEO's in the UK it would seem.

A website can be designed in a very short period ,SEO may go on for years.

Earl

 

[eventdomain]

1.fortunately in the world of SEO its often the case that to many cooks spoil the broth.

2.You must be kidding,anyone can design a website to greater or lesser standards.

There are very few quality SEO's in the UK it would seem.

A website can be designed in a very short period ,SEO may go on for years.

Earl

But its great for the client though, SEO thrown in for low cost - fantastic, and if it saves them cash, they won't complain.

Anyone can design a website? That's too debatable and you cant compare SEO and web design, as design requires upto degree study as its actually to do with the profession of programmers which involves study of C+, Basic language and Java, MySql etc, so no way can anyone just
'do it'.

 

Anyone can design a website? That's too debatable and you cant compare SEO and web design, as design requires upto degree study as its actually to do with the profession of programmers which involves study of C+, Basic language and Java, MySql etc, so no way can anyone just
'do it'.

True one would require a few bits of Adobe kit which would allow you to design 98% of sites on the web.

Earl

 

[mobyme]

Large and medium sized businesses have in-house people that do this for them. The small sole-traders, one-man-bands won't have.

Many don't have this luxury and simply cannot afford expensive SEO fees, and this ties in with why we have thousands of websites stuck at No 300 of the SERPS.

Ofcourse, I'd suggest that when companies hire designers, they get the SEO for free, or greatly reduced as part of the overall fee, and thats the correct way to do it on a low budget, and so many dont have the significant budget required to win at the SEO game, so cannot compete with the big corporates that spend £10'000 a pop to own the top spots.

So if they spend so much on SEO and Advertising, they dont need to know anything - they just hire in.

Very few web designers have any real knowledge of SEO which is where a lot of the problems start.

I have lost count of the number of businesses whose site is a bloody shambles who have said to me that their site was SEO'd by the people who designed their website.

It's only when you start to explain SEO that the penny drops.

Finding budgets is very simple all you have to do is ask what level of sales would the client like to attain.

Next question is, how much are you prepared to spend to achieve those sales?

I qualify every prospective client and if the budget isn't there I walk away or alternatively suggest a joint venture if I believe in the product or service they are offering.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

But its great for the client though, SEO thrown in for low cost

Firstly, you're assuming that web designers know how to do SEO, which isn't the case.

Secondly, you're assuming that, for some reason, they'd be willing to do SEO for a really poor hourly rate or for nothing. Why would they?

Steve

 

[SEO Lady]

The basics (and not so basics) of SEO are very very simple. One key aspect of SEO is the need for a good website, this is the bit many businesses don't get. They fail to understand why their thirty bob website isn't number one in Google and close themselves off from the hard fact that they need to do some work.

I think this is the fundamental problem.

d

I agree, and also referring to my earlier example of the client with the 18 months Adwords spend without a conversion, it was clear from his landing pages with no text/description/internal links - just 3 images - that no one would buy.

Personally I have no idea how to build a site (apart from in WISYWIG) so I guess I would be proud if I had managed to contruct an e-commerce site and populated it with products to sell, however, low level sites are often lacking in the fundamentals target demographics are also often ignored.

 

[omnivore]

True one would require a few bits of Adobe kit which would allow you to design 98% of sites on the web.

Earl

The point is :-

could earl design a web site like this and pull big budget design clients?

and could they SEO a site like this and get to the top of google for`car leasing`?

answer no, of course they can't.

the big question is how can you harness both specialisms to get the best results on both fronts?

which is why marketing managers like me are the coolest kids on the block...FACT!

only we can pull it all together, without us it's all just yah boo and my dads bigger than your dad.

SEO's and Designers?.....just spokes in our bigger wheel,

just spokes in the wheel man...

 

[RedEvo]

Perhaps part of the problem is the proliferation of 'have a go' web design companies and freelancers. They understand enough to be dangerous.

I know we lose jobs because our quotes include all the necessary business aspects of developing a site (needs analysis, competition analysis, keyword research, stakeholder analysis etc). Some businesses compare our quotes to quotes that do nothing more than create a pretty site and little else.

Of course we try to educate clients and I'm glad to say the enlightened clients get it. More often these days we are picking up the pieces for clients who've 'got it' the hard way.

d

 

[RedEvo]

The point is :-

could earl design a web site like this and pull big budget design clients?

and could they SEO a site like this and get to the top of google for`car leasing`?

answer no, of course they can't.

the big question is how can you harness both specialisms to get the best results on both fronts?

which is why marketing managers like me are the coolest kids on the block...FACT!

only we can pull it all together, without us it's all just yah boo and my dads bigger than your dad.

SEO's and Designers?.....just spokes in our bigger wheel,

just spokes in the wheel man...

If only that were true. So many 'marketing specialists' are lost when it comes to anything digital. They are floundering. Of course, those that do get it are worth their weight in gold.

d

 

[omnivore]

If only that were true. So many 'marketing specialists' are lost when it comes to anything digital. They are floundering. Of course, those that do get it are worth their weight in gold.

d

zactly
that why we do get such high pay

 

[bdw]

Assuming that it is business owners rather than the general public we are talking about then in my experience more and more of them are becoming aware of the importance of SEO. That does not stop the more naive amongst them still telling me that they want to be number one on Google for words like mesothelioma.

Asking what someone's budget is, is just so intrusive.

Based on personal experience this is wrong. In my early days I would happiily spend two or three hours nursing an enquiry along by email and phone only to find out that I needed £1K for the work and client only had 50 quid.

That meant that we wasted each other's time.

 

[UKSBD]

The title of my OP was wrong really,

I didn't specifically mean they don't have a clue about SEO (wouldn't really expect them to)

What I really meant was they don't have a clue about search engine positions.

I get the impression some think it is just a case of building a website then only having to pay a small fee for it to be on the front page of the search engines.

 

[bdw]

Yes, that's what I meant by naive.

 

[dagaul101]

My own personal view of SEO is if you have the time you can learn all you need to know, following freely available info on a simple Google search. Ofcourse the search engines are always changing their algorithm, but if you keep up you will be fine

 

[paulus]

My own personal view of SEO is if you have the time you can learn all you need to know, following freely available info on a simple Google search. Ofcourse the search engines are always changing their algorithm, but if you keep up you will be fine

But you are more tecnologically minded than the majority of the public (you're discussing SEO on a forum for a start ). Most people have never heard of SEO and don't realise that people compete to get to the top of the SERPs. If they are unaware of even the existence of a process called "optimisation", they're not going to have a clue about budgets for it.

Business owners who have looked into ways of increasing conversions may have a better idea. It all depends on how far down the research/experience path they are. Of course, you are always going to get people who want the moon on a stick for £100/month, but you get that in all areas.

 

[eventdomain]

Assuming that it is business owners rather than the general public we are talking about then in my experience more and more of them are becoming aware of the importance of SEO. That does not stop the more naive amongst them still telling me that they want to be number one on Google for words like mesothelioma.


Based on personal experience this is wrong. In my early days I would happiily spend two or three hours nursing an enquiry along by email and phone only to find out that I needed £1K for the work and client only had 50 quid.

That meant that we wasted each other's time.

Ok, you just wont be given the real budget information - they'll still make something up. Again, the proof is in the

We only got £50 to spend on this

-- there's a reason behind that - they are testing you!

case in point - I was gathering a few quotes for web design years back, and one guy wanted £10'000 to do the job 'properly' - but knew from years of experience I could get it done cheaper by about £7'000, my actual budget for the entire project was £16'000 (but he didn't know this) and would of gotten more work once he'd proven his ability.

But his crazy fee was so out of the norm, I had to refuse, and sometimes you got to walk away. I'd made the decision the 10'000 guy wasn't much better than the next qualified programmer, so went for a freelancer and got a great job done and was happy.

This wasn't even about depending on what's involved in the quote, I had similar work done before, so I knew what was reasonable and what wasn't. But its also about who you can work with, and the guy was so arrogant, like he was the only one that can do the job.

 

[bdw]

Ok, you just wont be given the real budget information - they'll still make something up.

there's a reason behind that - they are testing you!

Not in my experience. I find that if I am straight with people and explain the situation properly they understand why I need to ask the question at the outset.

I have another business website and on this I ask online enquirers to select their budget from a range of budget options and tell them why it's best that we are open about this. One of these options is "I'd rather not say". Significantly most enquirers tend not to select this preferring to state a budget figure.

.

 

[An Oasis]

Do you EXPLAIN IN CAPS?



d

LOL is there any other way?

 

[An Oasis]

I don't really do SEO for anyone else anymore, but as an experiment set a little form up for people to enquire about SEO services.

I just asked a few basic questions, their URL, what they considered their 3 main keywords and their monthly budget (never asked about set up budget, but in hindsight should have)

This is just an example of enquiries received from past couple of weeks

Key1: Intruder Alarms (area)
Key2: CCTV Systems (area)
Key3: Access Control (area)
Budget: 20.00

Probably all the Indian SEO's fed up of outsourcing to Sirearl and looking for a better deal?!