Frustrated recruitment

Discussion in 'General Business Forum' started by Silky, Apr 29, 2011.

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  1. Silky

    Silky UKBF Ace Full Member

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    We've been recruiting recently and my flabber is well and truly gasted at the appalling standard of the applicants. An administration role, the ad has attracted a wide number of applicants, from older women with many decades experience through to school leavers who haven't got a clue. Needless to say, the latter rang rings around the former.

    Do people really think it's wise to send in a cv littered with spelling errors? Or to email me and 7 other recruiters a cv at the same time? Or have such a dreadful command of grammar that my 9 year old could rip it apart?

    If the English was half decent, I had to wade through long emails telling me why the job would be good for them....well I hate to be harsh but we're looking for someone who is good for us, we're not a social service and the fact they once went to Spain by coach doesn't convince us of their experience in the travel industry.

    No doubt in August the government will be telling us yet again that the exam results are the best ever, unfortunately the proof is very definitely in the pudding. What makes it even more depressing is that many of the applicants were graduates too...

    At least it made the interviewing process easy, 90% of the applications landed in the bin.

    Have we just been unlucky or are standards really dropping so devastatingly low?

    Silky
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2011
    Posted: Apr 29, 2011 By: Silky Member since: Oct 29, 2007
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  2. Matt1959

    Matt1959 UKBF Legend Free Member

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    so you've got a vacancy you can;t fill, well I never:rolleyes:

    sorry for sarcasm, its been a hot topic here recently:)

    for what its worth I sympathise!
     
    Posted: Apr 29, 2011 By: Matt1959 Member since: Sep 8, 2006
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  3. Silky

    Silky UKBF Ace Full Member

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    I've missed the other threads (I haven't been on for a while) but given the general standard, it doesn't surprise me.

    All that said, we did receive around 6 very good applications and struggled to choose between 2. Not all bad, just a chore separating the wheat from the chaff.

    What did surprise me was that, in rejecting the many, I offered feedback if anyone wanted to get back to me. Only two people had the interest to do so. A shame really, as the others needed it ever so desperately.

    Silky
     
    Posted: May 1, 2011 By: Silky Member since: Oct 29, 2007
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  4. Homshaw

    Homshaw UKBF Enthusiast Free Member

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    It is true that some CV's are really poor for the qualifications the applicants have.

    However there are a lot of good people out there with a lot to offer.

    I do feel people are too reluctant to take a lesser skilled or lesser paid job if they lose a better one

    Ageism is rife. Are all older women really worse than all school leavers? Probably not.

    I feel we are heading for real problems if some of these issues are not addressed.

    Apparent over 20% of 18-25 year olds are unemployed?

    Tuition fees are reaching a level where they are a deterrent to ambitious children from poorer families making the most of their abilities.

    I visited two clients in the last few weeks, one a plumber one an electrician. Both are struggling financially. Both have trainees. One is having to let the trainee go. The other will do so when he has completed his training. We are talking 100 pounds a week.

    People also want things handing to them on a plate and there is too much employment legislation to encourage them. They should try being self employed. I know people who have downsized their businesses simply because of hassle they get when employing people.

    An aging population and a poorly trained younger generation has got to be a big problem not only for the economy but for social cohesion.
     
    Posted: May 1, 2011 By: Homshaw Member since: Apr 18, 2008
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  5. tony84

    tony84 UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    Im 26 so still fairly young. I used to help run a family business, the CVs we used to get were pretty poor. Some had drawings on (they were nice pictures but not for a CV), some on pink paper, spelling mistakes, lastnights dinner etc etc.

    I would in the main prefer to take on an older person rather than someone younger. Im generalising here, but they have common sense, initiative and a far better work ethic.
     
    Posted: May 1, 2011 By: tony84 Member since: Apr 14, 2008
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  6. teddys

    teddys UKBF Enthusiast Free Member

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    Whilst appreciating the recruiter's concern here, I would like to add that recruitment these days is about a mechanical process; just to fit the profile somehow to the job specs and then manage the face to face session psychologically. The agencies are basically a liars' network (tweak CVs etc) and what not. Actual talents are a plenty and there are no takers!
     
    Posted: May 1, 2011 By: teddys Member since: Apr 30, 2011
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  7. Silky

    Silky UKBF Ace Full Member

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    No teddys, this wasn't just a mechanical process and we didn't use agencies. We read and responded to all applications ourselves and took time to consider those who didn't fit our initial spec but had complimentary skills.

    Homshaw it wasn't just the quality of the cvs, unfortunately it was the quality of the applicants themselves. In the job advert we were very clear that we needed someone who prided themselves on their accuracy and eye for detail. Why then does someone who can't even be bothered to use a spell checker think they've any chance of getting past the first hurdle? People addressed me incorrectly, some didn't send in a covering letter or email, some didn't send a cv but instead just an email saying when they'd be available for interview and "to ask if I wanted to know more" (hello, that sounds like internet dating to me!!). It wasn't just the school leavers that fell into this sector, but graduates too and if this is the level that the universities are turning out, then all funding should be stopped now, they're simply wasting their time.

    @Tony, we have also gone for older staff. Apart from an apprentice our staff are 30-40 with good experience, reliability and a knowledge of English that is beyond the Janet and John books.

    I also have to say that having also received applications from a number of people who have immigrated to the UK, the standards by far surpassed those received from locals, despite English being their second or third language.

    Silky
     
    Posted: May 1, 2011 By: Silky Member since: Oct 29, 2007
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  8. Jason_Fisher

    Jason_Fisher UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    I applied for a job once through a recruitment company where were just doing the CV's and the company then took the good ones and did the interviews. The recruitment consultant told me to change the structure of my CV and change this and change that etc. The company ended up ringing me with some feedback. They actually loved the experience i had, but wanted to give me some feedback on my CV structure etc. I explained and they told me to send my original CV. They ended up interviewing me and hiring me.

    I think recruitment companies are good for businesses as it stops you having to go through all the applicants etc but shouldn't really do things like that with your CV's. It doesn't portray that condidate correctly i think. Especially that time as it made my CV worse :)
     
    Posted: May 1, 2011 By: Jason_Fisher Member since: Mar 29, 2010
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  9. Homshaw

    Homshaw UKBF Enthusiast Free Member

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    Recruitment companies usually ask for a large fee. 15 to 30% of the annual salary is not uncommon

    If they come up with a really good shortlist relevant to the job then great.

    All to often they have no background in the field and are not worth the money.

    Yes you get lots of people who are virtually unemployable. I go to work on my bicycle and park near the Job Centre. Some of the conversations I hear are amazing.

    Maybe schools should ask local businessmen to give feedback on practice job applications from final year students.

    Parents should also take more of an interest. I had a young lady drop off a CV a couple of weeks ago. It was neat and tidy and she was really pleasant. However her grades were very poor. She wouldn't make an accountant but I did keep her CV in case I come across a client with a suitable job. I think someone must have helped her with her CV. It was immaculate.

    I'm very lucky. I only have one employee who is honest and hard working. I call her "Really Nice" Lisa because everyone who speaks to her says "She's really nice,Lisa". Everyone who comes in the office gets a big smile, a warm welcome and a cup of coffee
     
    Posted: May 1, 2011 By: Homshaw Member since: Apr 18, 2008
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  10. iArtist

    iArtist Guest

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    Don't you mean the former ran rings around the latter?


    Sorry but given the rest of the post this just made me laugh :)

    I don't think standards have dropped, I think they've always been low.
     
    Posted: May 1, 2011 By: iArtist Member since: Jan 1, 1970
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  11. Silky

    Silky UKBF Ace Full Member

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    I'm typing on a forum (quickly) whilst juggling the kids and a number of other work tasks. I'm not putting everything into a job application to try and prove I have an eye for detail and should be the person they take on.

    A world of difference, perhaps like you, the applicants don't recognise this either?

    Hmm.

    Silky
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2011
    Posted: May 1, 2011 By: Silky Member since: Oct 29, 2007
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  12. Silky

    Silky UKBF Ace Full Member

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    p.s. I'd also change the typo (or is it a spelling error) on the home page of your website ...
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2011
    Posted: May 1, 2011 By: Silky Member since: Oct 29, 2007
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  13. iArtist

    iArtist Guest

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    I can relate

    Meanwhile you're not the only job they've applied to, you'll be one of maybe 50, which is why they're so sloppy. Your job is not their dream job its 'A' job. It's one of 50 forms they've filled in, one of 50 covering letters they've had to type and so on and so forth. The rejection letters cause them to put in less and less effort and it's a vicious circle.

    Re bad grammar..pot kettle black I'm afraid. (I'm also not perfect but then I'm not complaining about others being less so...you know what they say..glass houses and all that).

    Meanwhile re the lack of effort in job applications, we discussed all this in great detail re another thread recently, I'll try to link you to it, but basically this is how it is.

    There is a decline in standards generally.
     
    Posted: May 1, 2011 By: iArtist Member since: Jan 1, 1970
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  14. Silky

    Silky UKBF Ace Full Member

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    That's completely the reason why they're unemployed. I went through the whole graduate thing too (although a number of years ago, cough cough), when everyone was after the same hot jobs and yes, it became demeaning and laboursome but at no stage should the job seeker drop their standards as they lessen their chances all round. As our role has the appeal of being travel related we probably had a wider spectrum than normal in the applications but I really do fear that many will end up as long term unemployed unless they actually read what they're sending out.

    Anyway, we've found our jewel in the crown thank goodness, let's hope she lives up to the expectations she's now given us!

    Silky
     
    Posted: May 1, 2011 By: Silky Member since: Oct 29, 2007
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  15. iArtist

    iArtist Guest

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    This is good news and often it is the case that there's only one clear contender, but that makes the process much easier. Less interviews...
     
    Posted: May 1, 2011 By: iArtist Member since: Jan 1, 1970
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  16. tony84

    tony84 UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    Why bother applying to 50 jobs if there is a spelling mistake. My CV is factually correct, it doesnt have anything to do with future plans etc - so it never needs changing (unless i change my job and then its just making updates). There is no reason for there to be any spelling mistakes.

    As for a covering letter, i have never used one. My CV i believe speaks for itself. Covering letters are full of tosh anyway its all just a load of b/s. You could write a covering letter that was amazing but if they have been on the dole for 5 years - chances are your going to think i dont want that on my books.

    My gf has been looking for jobs and has been working in a pub for 2-3 years. Its obviously not her dream job but shes never late, comes in early if asked, stays late if asked and makes the most of it getting on with the regulars and has actually become a bit of an asset to the pub. People may see it as just a job but there is no reason for them not to put the effort in. You never know, it might be a career path you actually think is for you and work up in that area rather than the one you envisaged.
     
    Posted: May 1, 2011 By: tony84 Member since: Apr 14, 2008
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  17. Fedster

    Fedster Guest

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    Hi Silky, i am 23,reading stuff like this really frustrates me and makes me angry in equal measure, i have not got a Degree, but i am sure as heck alot cleverer then alot of graduates, i try to be polite,be kind, and work hard in every walk of life, indeed starting my way up from the bottom up of the ladder in my current job has given me the self belief that i can go far.

    I suppose my point is alot of us young people are not being given the chance because we have not got Degrees and those that have are wasting it by showing a careless attitude, i wish people like yourself would give more chances to those of us who are in between,i.e. we are not school leavers, or at Uni but that doesnt mean we can offer nothing to Businesses like yours.
     
    Posted: May 1, 2011 By: Fedster Member since: Jun 25, 2010
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  18. Silky

    Silky UKBF Ace Full Member

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    The cvs without a covering letter or introduction were some of the first in the NO pile. You've only one chance to make an impression and if it looks like you can't be bothered to make an effort for this (whether it be poor spelling or a lack of cv or covering letter) then it doesn't stand you in good stead. A covering letter gives you the chance to interact with the recruiter and summarise very quickly why you're applying for that role / why you think they should take you on. The lady we've taken on had a good, solid cv but also showed herself as very personable from the outset with a very good covering letter and further communication that set her out from the crowd.

    Why limit your chances for the sake of 15-20 minutes effort?

    Silky
     
    Posted: May 1, 2011 By: Silky Member since: Oct 29, 2007
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  19. Fedster

    Fedster Guest

    2 0
    Hi Silky,

    I am aged 23, so you could say i am 1 of those who has been churned out the Education System recently, i have not got a Degree, however i have got a HND.

    Reading your opening post saddens and angers me in equal measure, it saddens me that people who have got a Degree, are not talking full advantage of their qualification, due to a CBA attiude i feel alot of us yoiunger ones who are not school leavers or Graduates have more to offer than alot of Graduates, just because you are Graduate does not nececssearly mean that perosn is intelligent.

    Not all young people have a lack of Grammar or Manners,but those who have are often rejected because of people with degrees, who quite frankly dont give a toss and havent done a days work in their life.

    I was given a chance by a company, and i have worked hard, been polite and generally been a well mannered young person, as a result i have been quite successful, and i am enjoying my job.

    I just wish people like yourself would give more chances to those in between, so those who are not School Leavers or Graduates, there are plenty of good uns in that age group and they just need to be given the chance!!

    PS, Sorry for any spelling or gramamr mistakes :)
     
    Posted: May 1, 2011 By: Fedster Member since: Jun 25, 2010
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  20. tony84

    tony84 UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    covering letters are all about you saying how fantastic and amazing you are and how your experience will help the company.

    My CV has my job, my role, any promotions/movements within the company etc. It shows i was employed by a company, have been promoted and explains my role.

    A Covering letter you are taking my word for how good i am at my job. I could be useless but because i have put a letter together to say i was great - i get an interview?

    Just my opinion but ive sent my CV to some of the biggest banks/life offices in the country/world and funnily enough, the only one i never got an interview for was at the pyramid a few years ago (that was the only one i sent a covering letter with).
     
    Posted: May 1, 2011 By: tony84 Member since: Apr 14, 2008
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