Freelancer won't pay - Small claim courts or debt collection agency?
- Thread starter hargreaves56
- Start date
You mention he's a freelancer as in self-employed? First thing is to check he actually has the money to pay you and isn't just avoiding you? If he genuinely has no money, as many self-employed currently don't, then expect the court to not be that supportive and probably give him a very extended payment schedule at best.
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- Original Poster
- #7
Not sure he as the money. But he had my money and did not for it and managed to spend that alright. So if the court is going to be slow, then maybe one of the debt collection services which from what I can tell basically send people around. Not nice, but might be enough to prompt an action.
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It doesn't really work like this. Money claim on line is the interest portal to the county court service. It's not expensive and normally works well. You pay a small fee, and then if you win, you get that back too, if you lose, you lose the fee.
The trouble is that the court cannot get blood from a stone. They can seize goods that they can sell at auction, but auctions won't get the full value. So if you want 2 grand, they're going to have to seize what? 6 or 7 grands worth? If he's genuinely poor, then he won't have the assets. They might see a car, but it's on finance. Other assets might be rental. He might be using property owned by friends or family, and if he can prove this to the court collection agents, they'll go away. They might get him to do a voluntary agreement to pay you £X now and a few quid a week.
If he has two grand in the bank, then he might pay - but there's a good chance he's skint.
What you could do is watch him, private detective like - see if he's flush and having Just east deliveries and stuff like that, or is he genuinely showing signs of trouble. Ask around, check him out and you can always do a credit check on him. If it comes back with debts galore - go no further.
The trouble is that the court cannot get blood from a stone. They can seize goods that they can sell at auction, but auctions won't get the full value. So if you want 2 grand, they're going to have to seize what? 6 or 7 grands worth? If he's genuinely poor, then he won't have the assets. They might see a car, but it's on finance. Other assets might be rental. He might be using property owned by friends or family, and if he can prove this to the court collection agents, they'll go away. They might get him to do a voluntary agreement to pay you £X now and a few quid a week.
If he has two grand in the bank, then he might pay - but there's a good chance he's skint.
What you could do is watch him, private detective like - see if he's flush and having Just east deliveries and stuff like that, or is he genuinely showing signs of trouble. Ask around, check him out and you can always do a credit check on him. If it comes back with debts galore - go no further.
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If the cant pay, they cant pay. Regardless of what action you take.
Read up on the pre action protocol, you will need to send a LBA. If it's to them personally, you may find you need to send them a questionnaire of what they can afford - check up on it.
Even if you do go legal, it will take months to get to court, if they loose, provided they pay in 30 days the CCJ isn't recorded.
You could splash out more cash, and instruct bailiffs, but dont believe all you see on TV.
Or try a debt collection agency, we've had much greater success using this method, usually on a fixed % of what they recover. It leaves you to do other things.
Read up on the pre action protocol, you will need to send a LBA. If it's to them personally, you may find you need to send them a questionnaire of what they can afford - check up on it.
Even if you do go legal, it will take months to get to court, if they loose, provided they pay in 30 days the CCJ isn't recorded.
You could splash out more cash, and instruct bailiffs, but dont believe all you see on TV.
Or try a debt collection agency, we've had much greater success using this method, usually on a fixed % of what they recover. It leaves you to do other things.
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He had your money. Probably spent it since on living?
Imagine a scenario where later this year you get a court involved. He shows he has no money.
You get what?
He has no assets - you get what?
Great for you if he has the money and just does not want to pay you.
Not so great if he simply does not have the money.
How do you feel about a pound a month payment? What happens to your debt if he declares or is declared by someone else to be bankrupt?
By all means investigate recovering your debt. Just do not assume it will be paid until such time as money is handed over.
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I once got a CCJ against a guy that owed my company about £400. I knew I wasn't going to see a penny, but he had a mortgage, car finance etc. and I knew a CCJ would hurt him for the next 6 years - Good luck with that remortgage when your fixed rate expires out.
If he was a drifter with no use for a clean credit file, then it would have been pointless. So know your enemy.
If he was a drifter with no use for a clean credit file, then it would have been pointless. So know your enemy.
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To someone relying on credit it becomes an issue. However after the first ccj the rest are not terribly exciting.
Someone with poor credit does not need to be bothered by an impact on credit report.
And go bankrupt - clear the debt away eventually for low cost.
Sometimes circumstances prevent people paying.
Have a good job, have a car on finance and a mortgage. Perfectly fine to have borrowing - then lose everything - bit harder paying bills on state benefits, harder still when sanctioned.
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Correct - but they have time. Sending letters, tracing the debtor, phone calls, and having a detachment from the debt to deal with the BS excuses.
Courts are slow, even at the best of times, we have had better success with debt recovery companies... the last one paid within minutes of them being contacted.
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Taking into account all of the above, personally I would go the LBA / MCOL route out of principle
I wouldn't take further enforement action though; just take it as a process to be completed.
There's about a 50% chance they are either sloppy or a bit hard up - in many cases they will manage to beg steal or borrow this sum of money somewhere between LBA and 30 days after judgement.
I wouldn't take further enforement action though; just take it as a process to be completed.
There's about a 50% chance they are either sloppy or a bit hard up - in many cases they will manage to beg steal or borrow this sum of money somewhere between LBA and 30 days after judgement.
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Well - the price for online and the price for physical court is on the google found first page on the GOV.UK site site you're not exactly looking very hard are you?
https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/court-fees
To save you typing, click on that link above, and it will save you 20 seconds or so - quicker than the time it took me to type this.
until you get to large amounts, interestingly paper is just ten quid more expensive. I suppose in your case it's deciding if an extra hundred quid is worth adding to the amount he owes. It really does come back to doing some work to find out his current financial status. If he already has CCJs, there's little point really, is there?
https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/court-fees
To save you typing, click on that link above, and it will save you 20 seconds or so - quicker than the time it took me to type this.
until you get to large amounts, interestingly paper is just ten quid more expensive. I suppose in your case it's deciding if an extra hundred quid is worth adding to the amount he owes. It really does come back to doing some work to find out his current financial status. If he already has CCJs, there's little point really, is there?
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- Original Poster
- #27
Sorry Paul, I did check the fees and said it was about £100 didn't I? Do you know how to check for CCJs first, I have googled and found this site? https://www.trustonline.org.uk/
So if he doesn't pay and we go to court then he's got a CCJ even if he doesn't show up.
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- Original Poster
- #28
Thank you Mark. Should I get a solicitor to write the letter so it looks proper? One of these online solicitors maybe. Also I assume I have his correct address but you never really know with sole traders. His email address and mobile number are correct though, so guess the letter will be posted and emailed and Whatsapp'd!
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You gave someone £2k without even being sure of their address, and you don’t know the correct procedure for chasing money owed.
I would suggest a job stacking shelves in Tesco, but that kinda thing gets me into trouble!
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You can use that agency to check, but if you're close to the county court the actual register is, I think, free to inspect in person. Or any of those credit agencies who advertise on TV. Having a CCJ for some traders is a kind of badge of office. Look at your local car traders if you get access and have spare searches. County Court Judgements help other people mostly not make your mistake. They only get entered when people totally fail. The letter before action is kind of last chance saloon - if they ignore that, you know they really don't care. I've got a policy myself that if there's grief, I refund, even when I really, really don't want to, or a client has screwed me. Only once did I go to court and win - but never saw a penny. The police with a criminal case took him to crown court where they had the cheek to call me as a witness. The jury found him guilty and he went to prison. This out trumps the county court and getting money out of a convict just isn't going to work.
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- Original Poster
- #31
Ok thanks for all your help. I will send a LBA https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/l...lems-with-goods---letter-before-court-action/ then go done the small claims court / MCOL route. Or I might give the debt collection service a go if it's no win/no fee.
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Pay someone to run some checks. Probably his mum or dad own the house. He's just a kid working out his bedroom.
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Look on the electoral roll for a start, check companies house is another way. There are lots of ways to verify someone’s address.
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