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Discussion in 'General Business Forum' started by Edgar2, Jul 27, 2020.

  1. Edgar2

    Edgar2 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    9 0
    A cafe has an outside area which has a boundary wall around the seating area . The cafe owner has erected a large fence around the outside of the wall with lockable gates at each end but which has been erected on the property of the neighbouring properties either side . Do you think that this would require planning permission? Also do you think that the fence should have been erected either on top of the existing low wall or on their side of the wall? Any ideas would be appreciated , thanks
    Posted: Jul 27, 2020 By: Edgar2 Member since: Apr 29, 2019
  2. AllUpHere

    AllUpHere UKBF Ace Free Member

    3,236 1,193
    You can't get planning permission to build something on someone else's land.
    Posted: Jul 27, 2020 By: AllUpHere Member since: Jun 30, 2014
  3. The Byre

    The Byre UKBF Legend Full Member

    10,059 4,114
    This is an old legal chestnut that comes up in week one of many legal courses - can you eat the apples from your neighbour's tree if they hang over the wall? - No, you can't, but you can cut down the branches and hand them over to the neighbour.

    Unless the fence is above a certain height (2m?) planning is not required, but a fence erected on a neighbour's property without permission can be taken down and the pieces of the fence handed to the neighbour.

    If it were me, I would get my tractor and put a chain around the fence and pull it out and throw the bits over the wall - after checking the deeds to the property that the fence REALLY is on my property. That said, I get on great with my neighbours, they are my friends and one of them did erect a fence on my property two months ago to help keep his rare sheep in - I gave him a bottle of vintage single malt as a thankyou present!
    Posted: Jul 27, 2020 By: The Byre Member since: Aug 13, 2013
  4. Edgar2

    Edgar2 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    9 0
    Its the fact that they've done it without even consulting with us .
    Posted: Jul 27, 2020 By: Edgar2 Member since: Apr 29, 2019
  5. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

    23,486 2,835
    Perhaps they feel they don't need to consult.

    You know they are on others property. Do they know they aren't on own property?
    Posted: Jul 27, 2020 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
  6. simon field

    simon field UKBF Big Shot Full Member - Verified Business

    4,620 1,690
    Take it down and sell it.
    Posted: Jul 27, 2020 By: simon field Member since: Feb 4, 2011
  7. The Byre

    The Byre UKBF Legend Full Member

    10,059 4,114
    No. The bits must be returned to their owner.

    They may have studied the deeds and seen that the wall is inside their property and that there is enough of their property on the other side of the wall to erect a fence.

    The only way you can be sure is to study the deeds. If you do not have them and they are with the bank or building society, ask to have a photocopy of the deeds. Only start ripping the fence down when you are 100% sure that the deeds actually show where the boundary is and that the offending fence is on your property.

    Getting that detail wrong can cost a great deal of money!
    Posted: Jul 28, 2020 By: The Byre Member since: Aug 13, 2013
  8. Chris Ashdown

    Chris Ashdown UKBF Legend Free Member

    11,685 2,429
    Before you start WW3 it may be wise to contact them and ask to discuss it, and possibly see their deeds.

    Its not impossible that both sets of deeds may overlap and the old wall is not the actual boundary
    Posted: Jul 28, 2020 By: Chris Ashdown Member since: Dec 7, 2003
  9. UKSBD

    UKSBD Not a real duck Staff Member

    10,090 1,987
    What are you trying to achieve?
    Posted: Jul 28, 2020 By: UKSBD Member since: Dec 30, 2005
  10. gpietersz

    gpietersz UKBF Ace Full Member

    1,256 291
    Really this first. Why start a feud if you do not need to?

    Of course sensible people will never get to that stage and come to a reasonable agreement. I have come across almost exactly that situation and the neighbour offered the fruit on the other side without being asked.
    Posted: Jul 28, 2020 By: gpietersz Member since: Sep 10, 2019
  11. Bob Morgan

    Bob Morgan UKBF Enthusiast Free Member

    841 231
    Posted: Jul 28, 2020 By: Bob Morgan Member since: Apr 15, 2018
  12. Alison Moore

    Alison Moore UKBF Enthusiast Full Member

    502 85
    Often leased commercial properties aren't very clear on the exact boundaries and unless you get the deed information from the land registry it's difficult to know for sure where their land ends and yours start. If it's not inconveniencing you, and we're only talking about an inch or so, I'd leave it. It's not worth causing a war over. My neighbour used to cut our branches off an overhanging bush and throw them back over the fence. Yes he was in his right to do so, but I used to think it was all rather petty.
    Posted: Jul 28, 2020 By: Alison Moore Member since: Aug 4, 2016
  13. Alyson Dyer

    Alyson Dyer UKBF Regular Free Member

    190 72
    Oh yes you can! A lot of land purchases happen because the purchaser has applied for planning permission before the sale goes through. Because you have planning permission to build on someone else’s property doesn’t mean you can do it though.
    Posted: Jul 28, 2020 By: Alyson Dyer Member since: Oct 27, 2011
  14. kulture

    kulture UKBF Legend Staff Member

    8,103 2,234
    If the property is in a conservation area then planning permission would be required regardless. However planning enforcement is optional and the local council may choose not to enforce.

    It is always better to talk and negotiate before doing anything rash. Do you object to the fence or do you object its position. For some it might be thought of as a good idea because it gives you greater privacy and less noise.
    Posted: Jul 28, 2020 By: kulture Member since: Aug 11, 2007
  15. billybob99

    billybob99 UKBF Regular Free Member

    1,617 492
    You're telling me after 22 years of free apple (also pears and plums) eating, that I can't.
    Posted: Jul 28, 2020 By: billybob99 Member since: Apr 23, 2013
  16. LanceUk

    LanceUk UKBF Contributor Free Member

    79 27
    Firstly, I would NOT take the advice of damaging the fence and returning it.. You may be liable in crimimal law for... criminal damage. I don't think having a crimial record is worth it, somehow. There are many precedents the prosecution could use to support their case.

    The right thing to do if you want to have the fence removed from your land is to speak to the owner and give them the opportunity to do so. If they refuse, it will be best to seek the advice of a solicitor (for which any costs you incur, if it is on your land, you will be able to recover from the cafe owner). If you are simply pi££ed off because you weren't consulted, speak to them, avoid a feud (as others have suggested) and maybe go for a month of free breakfast panninis or something.

    For planning permission, it is only required for a fence that is over 6' tall from memory... I could be wrong - it was a while ago. @Alyson Dyer is correct - they can get planning permission to build on other's properties (unlikely if the property owner/tenant of the property to build on objects), but that doesn't mean they can build on it.
    Posted: Jul 31, 2020 at 9:16 PM By: LanceUk Member since: Jan 8, 2018