Fake UK sellers (china) on eBay scam?

Discussion in 'Ecommerce Forum' started by Worzel, Mar 19, 2013.

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  1. jashry

    jashry UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    29 0
    The Daily Mirror had a great article on these scams which you can read here:

    blogs.mirror.co.uk/investigations/2010/12/ebay-has-suspended-the-account.html

    I suggest we contact Penman and Sommerlad, if we can post a link to this post on their facebook bag perhaps they'll take notice and run a front page article, after all ebay and amazon are facilitating fraud for these Chinese sellers and allowing them to defraud the HMRC and the Consumer out of billions of revenue.

    facebook.com/pages/Penman-Investigates/326889169682
     
    Posted: Jul 19, 2013 By: jashry Member since: Dec 23, 2009
    #81
  2. joinuniverse

    joinuniverse UKBF Newcomer Full Member

    67 0
    What a great thread!

    I was recently scammed few weeks ago buying a GPS from what was supposed to be a UK seller but after a long wait for the item to arrive I became suspicious. It turned out that the GPS arrived but was not loading UK maps at all, I tried in different spots etcetc.

    Finally I discovered it was a Chinese firm. Fortunately I sent back the item to their warehouse in Portugal and I was refunded the item + postage. Nonetheless it was a one month waste of time!

    This happened on Amazon not ebay though.

    Thanks for sharing your valuable input.
     
    Posted: Jul 26, 2013 By: joinuniverse Member since: Jul 24, 2013
    #82
  3. Directtalk

    Directtalk UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    1 0
    I have just registered so that I can contribute to this thread. Both eBay & Amazon are the same. For some reason on Amaon the buy box is given to Chinese sellers more than UK ones even with the long delivery time and not so good feedback. In many cases eBay is also the same.


    All of us trading from the UK are hard done when compare to Chinese sellers who do not pay Vat or any tax. This is the repeat of way we have killed the manufacturing in the UK by moving everything to the China. It would be impossible to price match Chinese sellers.
     
    Posted: Sep 11, 2013 By: Directtalk Member since: Sep 11, 2013
    #83
  4. japancool

    japancool UKBF Big Shot Full Member

    3,407 650
    I was looking at an item last night. The item location said "London" but when I tried to buy it, it said "International services from outside the UK" under the shipping options.
     
    Posted: Sep 11, 2013 By: japancool Member since: Jul 11, 2013
    #84
  5. deniser

    deniser UKBF Legend Free Member

    8,104 1,702
    So, coming back to this thread a few months later, has anyone managed to convince any journalist to run this story?
     
    Posted: Sep 11, 2013 By: deniser Member since: Jun 3, 2008
    #85
  6. musicfever

    musicfever UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    27 1
    Revised feedback over 800, I don't think so. I think EBAY has limited revision a month or a year, like 10 or something else ?????

    I just moved back China from UK where I had been living there for over 2 years. Struggling these days , both EBAY and PAYPAL account due to IP address and the postage addresses.
     
    Posted: Sep 13, 2013 By: musicfever Member since: Sep 13, 2013
    #86
  7. dooyoo

    dooyoo UKBF Contributor Free Member

    68 3
    I have also seen revised feedback in 100's, I thought the same thing that there can be couple of revised feedbacks within 1000 of them.
    But I guess not
     
    Posted: Sep 13, 2013 By: dooyoo Member since: Jul 6, 2013
    #87
  8. jashry

    jashry UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    29 0

    I've contacted the Daily Mail, I've had no response from them.

    I've contacted the HMRC and highlighted Ebay sellers that are defrauding them of more than of £1m VAT per day, but their accounts are still active and absolutely nothing is done. I think that the HMRC like to look at easy targets and it will probably realise in about 5 years when all the UK sellers have left ebay that their revenue from VAT has fallen significantly and then they will try and do something about it - they take years to act and their special "internet" department doesn't seem like they either (1) Know what they're doing; or (2) Are understaffed.

    The funny thing is that I contacted the HMRC and explained to them how the fraud worked and their response was "Ok, thanks for letting us know and unfortunately we cannot let you know the outcome of our investigation". If I worked on their team I would collect £1m of revenue for them per day guaranteed and if I didn't, I would work for free !!!! Although, if they wanted me to work for them I would do so on a commission basis only that's how sure I am that I could collect £1m per day !
     
    Posted: Oct 9, 2013 By: jashry Member since: Dec 23, 2009
    #88
  9. 14Steve14

    14Steve14 UKBF Enthusiast Free Member

    719 115
    It is absolutely disgraceful that no one seems to care that this is going on. At a time when large companies are not paying their dues, you would have thought that someone somewhere would want to recover something. Saying that it seems that they are trying to recover monies from small people and not the large mega corporations that make harder targets.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2013
    Posted: Oct 9, 2013 By: 14Steve14 Member since: May 18, 2010
    #89
  10. jashry

    jashry UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    29 0
    Steve,

    I am disgusted at this, I know that if it was on the front page of The Sun that Chinese Ebay sellers defraud the HMRC of £20m of VAT per day, he HMRC would do something about it and Ebay would also listen as Ebay is seen as a junk shop and they don't want this reputation any more (although this is a difficult reputation to get rid off as many people still sell stolen goods and absolute rubbish on ebay).

    I have contacted HMRC many times, I would recommend you also ring them. If you PM me I can give you information about one ebay seller who has 6 accounts and has a daily turnover of around £300,000 - absolutely disgusting when UK sellers are working so hard to compete against sellers who do NOT pay 20% VAT and almost certainly don't pay the correct amount of Duty either. Guess what, he's paying no VAT at all I know this because when I emailed them asking if they would provide me with a VAT receipt, they said "No, sorry, we are not VAT registered"
     
    Posted: Oct 9, 2013 By: jashry Member since: Dec 23, 2009
    #90
  11. Eurostick

    Eurostick UKBF Contributor Full Member - Verified Business

    32 8
    Sadly to say I know exactly who you are talking about and they have way more than 6 accounts - Problem is an investigation was done on them and they were shut down momenterily I believe - They are based off-shore now if you REALLY dig into the company information, it's all a mess though and theres like 4 companies within a company (I sound like that film now).

    Alan
     
    Posted: Oct 9, 2013 By: Eurostick Member since: Sep 25, 2013
    #91
  12. jashry

    jashry UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    29 0

    Alan,

    It does not matter where they are based, they could be based in Iraq, China or USA, the tax law in our country states that if an item is sent from the UK i.e. the transaction takes place in the UK (purchase and sale) then it is liable for VAT. The sellers are actually charging VAT on the sale but instead of handing it over to the HMRC they are pocketing the VAT.

    Being offshore is not sufficient to avoid VAT and this is no excuse. The one particular seller who has 6+ accounts is Chinese and fulfils all his orders from the UK, he pays ZERO VAT which gives him a 20% margin over other sellers. The HMRC are well aware of this, but they can't be bothered to do anything otherwise why would they not take up my offer of increasing their revenue of £1m per day in 10 minutes !! This is just the tip of the ice berg, this is a multi million pound fraud being facilitated by Ebay and I wouldn't be surprised if there's a silent agreement between ebay and the HMRC as they were the only ones not names in the Tax Evasion (starbucks, amazon etc.... were all named and shamed but Ebay AND Paypal were not mentioned at all)
     
    Posted: Oct 9, 2013 By: jashry Member since: Dec 23, 2009
    #92
  13. Eurostick

    Eurostick UKBF Contributor Full Member - Verified Business

    32 8
    I understand what you are saying and know the law on that (I previously worked for a company sellin 140,000 items a week running there online accounts), and there are loopholes in the law which can get around all of it - I wasn't informed on it all as I was told to keep my nose out of the business, so maybe that is why they don't got after them?

    I also know for smaller businesses HMRC won't touch anything unless they can get £35k out of them or they say it isnt worth there time!

    Pathetic I know but as someoene else said they are massivley understaffed.

    (I wouldn't also say PayPal being mentioned as they are just a payment gateway site for eBay even though they are owned by the same lot).

    The problem with eBay is I am not sure what laws they are breaking by allowing sellers to sell on the site without them being complient with the law - All I know is it is an unfair advantage as well as the Chinese able to post stuff over here for minimal costs compared to the price we have to pay.

    Alan
     
    Posted: Oct 9, 2013 By: Eurostick Member since: Sep 25, 2013
    #93
  14. jashry

    jashry UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    29 0
    Alan,

    I'm not sure you fully understand the fraud here, let me explain:

    (1) The Chinese sellers are making the sale in the UK, this is where the product is being sent from, it is NOT being sent from China. If the product was sent from China then they would not be committing any fraud and the sellers that send from China are not committing and crime in the UK

    (2) Ebay - you saying they are not breaking any laws is untrue. Ebay knows that this fraud is happening and ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law, they should be held liable for facilitating this fraud. This is the same principle as Piratebay for example, they were not uploading files themselves, they were being uploaded by users, however the law went against piratebay and not the users. This is what the HMRC needs to do, they need to tell ebay that anyone that has a turnover of over £60K and ships from the UK needs a valid UK VAT number - although the Chinese would probably make these up as well !
     
    Posted: Oct 9, 2013 By: jashry Member since: Dec 23, 2009
    #94
  15. dooyoo

    dooyoo UKBF Contributor Free Member

    68 3
    But there is VAT paid on importation of the goods.
    I am against Chinese sellers as well.
    But picture is not that grim as you think it is. They still use UK fulfilment centres, they also pay for couriers and/or Royal Mail, pretty much the same rate as you and I. They just work on less profit margin (most likely) or they just buy bigger quantities and get better prices.
    More or less ................welcome to the real world in 2013, days when you could just go an buy goods with UK wholesaler and resell them ebay for GOOD profit are long gone.
    And where is this number of £1 in unpaid VAT everyday coming from?
     
    Posted: Oct 9, 2013 By: dooyoo Member since: Jul 6, 2013
    #95
  16. jashry

    jashry UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    29 0
    Dooyoo,

    Unfortunately you are wrong, here's why:

    (1) They do not pay FULL VAT on the goods they important as they under declare the value of the goods they re importing. So rather than say the goods are worth £100,000 they will say they're worth £10,000 and pay £2k rather than £20k. So they are defrauding the revenue there.

    (2) Many of the UK Fulfilment centres are actually run by the Chinese themselves OR people that have bank accounts outside the UK, so the payment for the fulfilment never comes into the UK, it will be made into an overseas account, again the UK sees none of this

    In summary things are as grim as they seem, this is a multi billion pound scandal that is out of control, the HMRC does not appear to want to control this instead they are happy with going for the easy targets.
     
    Posted: Oct 9, 2013 By: jashry Member since: Dec 23, 2009
    #96
  17. Eurostick

    Eurostick UKBF Contributor Full Member - Verified Business

    32 8
    Fair enough I understand what you are saying -
    I am pretty sure eBay won't get into trouble by the law though as there will be some way around it, eBay only assit you in selling the goods and do not sell them themselves - I beliebe personally they should be stricter but we all know how under-staffed they are.
    A system will never be introduced on eBay though - There are some goods that don't need VAT charged as well as other areas were people do not need to charge VAT as well as many EU sellers with different rules selling on .co.uk

    Something does have to happen but I have been saying this for many years.

    Alan
     
    Posted: Oct 9, 2013 By: Eurostick Member since: Sep 25, 2013
    #97
  18. Eurostick

    Eurostick UKBF Contributor Full Member - Verified Business

    32 8
    Surely that's a customs issue on this one and an issue that the Chinese (and other places) have been doing for years!
     
    Posted: Oct 9, 2013 By: Eurostick Member since: Sep 25, 2013
    #98
  19. japancool

    japancool UKBF Big Shot Full Member

    3,407 650
    This sounds to me like an accusation without any substantive proof.
     
    Posted: Oct 9, 2013 By: japancool Member since: Jul 11, 2013
    #99
  20. dooyoo

    dooyoo UKBF Contributor Free Member

    68 3
    Call me naïve, but I think with 10 of years of experience UK customs agents kind of know when there are goods worth 100k under declared as 10k, they might be declared at 70k. But now go and prove that they are not 70k. Besides that I would like to see some proof of that, there have been 100k worth of goods declared as 10k worth of goods. If you have any proof I do not think customs agents will ignore you. I am kind of assuming that you are assuming.

    What about wages that are paid for fulfilment centre employees, rent and up keeping of that building, electricity, internet connection, etc............(please do not tell me that they have an electric and internet cables straight from China as well :)). There is still some money left in UK.

    I am not defending Chinese, they are still cheating our system, but the system that has been set up by us has no solution. Maybe we did not have this problem even 5 years ago.......but now we start to having it and it will take a lot of complaints and big budget whole for our government to start doing anything.
     
    Posted: Oct 9, 2013 By: dooyoo Member since: Jul 6, 2013
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