Exiting an unsigned lease??

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Falkirk300zx, Mar 20, 2009.

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  1. Falkirk300zx

    Falkirk300zx UKBF Contributor Free Member

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    We have a workshop on a 3 year lease, but wish to leave the lease after 1 year and wondering the best way to do it?

    We have not signed any lease nor have we paid any monies to the landlord as the roof was leaking and we refused untill the work was done. This saga of the leaking roof has gone on for a year now and someone else has offered alternative premises, which we want to let.

    We don't wish to argue any funds and will pay what is due, but simply want to end the lease. We have not yet brought it up with our landlord as someone has expressed an interest in taking over the unit!

    Our 'new' landlord told us just to walk away as we haven't signed anything.

    Can we just walk away and agree to pay the 1 year rent? Or would it be best to get the prospective new tenant, us and the landlord to negotiate an exit?

    We are Scottish based!

    Any help/advice would be helpful
     
    Posted: Mar 20, 2009 By: Falkirk300zx Member since: Mar 20, 2009
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  2. yorkshirejames

    yorkshirejames UKBF Ace Free Member

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    Not sure whether Scottish law would change anything, but as you haven't signed anything then I would just leave, and if you receive a demand for payment consider it then. His maximum claim would be for the time you have occupied the unit, not the full three year term.

    Speaking to him about this may be a good idea however, especially if you have a prospective new tenant to introduce.
     
    Posted: Mar 23, 2009 By: yorkshirejames Member since: Mar 2, 2006
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  3. deniser

    deniser UKBF Legend Free Member

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    You need Scottish legal advice.

    Under UK law a lease comes into existence automatically, whether you have signed a lease or not but this situation is is unusual in that you have not paid any rent and it is arguable whether a lease has come into existence if no rent has been paid. The rent - amount and frequency - usually determines what sort of lease you have in the absence of written agreement.

    But this is all irrelevant as it is Scottish law which applies anyway.
     
    Posted: Mar 23, 2009 By: deniser Member since: Jun 3, 2008
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  4. yorkshirejames

    yorkshirejames UKBF Ace Free Member

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    Does it? I'm not saying you're wrong, just that I am surprised.
     
    Posted: Mar 23, 2009 By: yorkshirejames Member since: Mar 2, 2006
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  5. Bri

    Bri UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    .....I actually thought I had a lease, signed and witnessed, paid rent for three yrs, as most of you know here we had to close, gave required amount of notice. Turned out the lease was never sent by the solicitors and was non existent. Landlord thanked me as I couldlve legally walked, closed the doors and wasnt obliged to explain to anyone.
     
    Posted: Mar 23, 2009 By: Bri Member since: Oct 9, 2008
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  6. Falkirk300zx

    Falkirk300zx UKBF Contributor Free Member

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    I noticed a previous post about a man in a situation but on the other foot.

    I also read somewhere that the rent payment period indicates your notice period, but having not paid anything. What happens???

    Could this be like other business 'contracts' where they can be signed through verbal agreements?

    We spoke to our solicitor who said we had concluded missives and that meant we had to honour our term lease. The funny thing is he let us down by not inserting a break clause and we are to to seek a second opinion.

    I was wanting ideas to present to a solicitor/lawyer as they can be so 1 dimensional sometimes! I don't want to rely on the hope of finding a tenant incase it is all chat from the prospective tenant and we don't want to pay another 2 years rent from an unused unit.

    And just to make things worse the 'new landlord' is offering a fantastic deal!
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2009
    Posted: Mar 23, 2009 By: Falkirk300zx Member since: Mar 20, 2009
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  7. deniser

    deniser UKBF Legend Free Member

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    Yes, if you occupy premises and pay rent a lease will come into existence under common law. Not only does it come into existence, but if you occupy for more than 6 months, the lease becomes protected by the Landlord & Tenant Act 1954 and the tenant gets security of tenure. So whilst this is fine for a tenant, a landlord should never let anyone in without signed documents, contracted out if necessary.

    It will not necessarily be on the same terms as the lease you were going to sign. As mentioned earlier, the dates when rent is paid determine the type of lease it is.
     
    Posted: Mar 23, 2009 By: deniser Member since: Jun 3, 2008
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  8. Falkirk300zx

    Falkirk300zx UKBF Contributor Free Member

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    Deniser,

    Are you saying that we are in a legal lease but through security of tenure? And if we wish to leave we can, security of tenure just means they can't kick us out?
     
    Posted: Mar 23, 2009 By: Falkirk300zx Member since: Mar 20, 2009
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  9. deniser

    deniser UKBF Legend Free Member

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    Scottish law is completely different to English law so I really can't say.

    If you are in England then yes depending on when the rent is paid - you have to give notice if you have a periodic lease eg. a quarter if your rent is paid quarterly - but you haven't paid any rent so I don't think you have a lease at all.

    Not quite sure on what basis you are in the property. How have you managed to be there for a year and not pay anything at all?!
     
    Posted: Mar 23, 2009 By: deniser Member since: Jun 3, 2008
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  10. Falkirk300zx

    Falkirk300zx UKBF Contributor Free Member

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    We required extra premises quickly and were promised certain faults would be fixed, the leaking roof and the roller door too. We moved in and they never fixed the faults, we refused to pay and here we are!

    They grumbled at the start about moving in without a signed lease, but allowed us in anyway! It seems we are in a mysterious place of being tenants but have not paid rent!

    It will be a year in April
     
    Posted: Mar 23, 2009 By: Falkirk300zx Member since: Mar 20, 2009
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  11. yorkshirejames

    yorkshirejames UKBF Ace Free Member

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    I will be shot down for what I am about to say. However, if times are hard for your business, and if the rent that would be paid (even for the one year) is substantial there may be an opportunity to close this business down (along with its liabilities) and transfer the assets to another company.

    Ethical no. Putting bread on your family table yes.
     
    Posted: Mar 24, 2009 By: yorkshirejames Member since: Mar 2, 2006
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  12. Falkirk300zx

    Falkirk300zx UKBF Contributor Free Member

    55 2
    yorkshire,

    Good idea, but we have spent ages getting our reputation 100%. It was considered but anything 'negative' could set me back years.

    We spoke to another solicitor who basically said there is no lease and the landlord is in material breach. They continued by saying pay the money and state a leaving day and go.

    Tomorrow a letter will be sent to the agent and just wait till they reply!
     
    Posted: Mar 24, 2009 By: Falkirk300zx Member since: Mar 20, 2009
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  13. gogs

    gogs UKBF Regular Free Member

    141 1
    Long time ago but I find myself in a similar situation also in Scotland, however I did pay monies but no lease was signed or created, other than a draft which asked for changes to be made, it was agreed some points would be changed but some were not agreed too.

    Similar story in there were verbal promises to rectify faults which never happened.

    I walked after 3-4 months when it was having a negative impact.

    Tried to talk things over but no good.

    Now action has been raised against myself...had some legal advice and it's not identical
     
    Posted: Jul 9, 2012 By: gogs Member since: Nov 19, 2010
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  14. Falkirk300zx

    Falkirk300zx UKBF Contributor Free Member

    55 2
    Bit of a necro post!

    To conclude the story, we offered the landlord 2 options either offer us a discounted rate for the year of a leaking roof or alternatively let us leave for all monies owed.

    They allowed us to leave the unit after paying 1 years full rent.
     
    Posted: Jul 11, 2012 By: Falkirk300zx Member since: Mar 20, 2009
    #14
  15. arcon5

    arcon5 UKBF Ace Free Member

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    That makes no sense. If there is no lease then what is the LL in breach off :|


    Good result though op
     
    Posted: Jul 11, 2012 By: arcon5 Member since: Sep 6, 2006
    #15
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