Employing in Philippines - I'll never hire in UK again.

Discussion in 'General Business Forum' started by JohnnyCash, Feb 3, 2011.

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  1. Dawg

    Dawg UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    Possible but a bit unlikely. 'Just in time' production strategy requires production and assembly to be close to each other and separation by outsourcing just one to another continent would throw this.
    Of course not everyone uses 'just in time' but the fact that assembly (for instance) is cheaper overseas would suggest production would be too.
    You are right that it might prevent total closure of the business as HQ might well stay here because of family and cultural reasons, although this in turn will be influenced by the tax regime; Boots is now an offshore producer, assembler and corporation with only a domestic retail presence. Corporate HQ moved for tax reasons.
     
    Posted: Apr 24, 2011 By: Dawg Member since: Feb 12, 2006
  2. OldWelshGuy

    OldWelshGuy UKBF Legend Staff Member

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    OI was using it as an example. It could just as easily be support outsourced, sales in the Uk etc :)
    I am just saying that outsourcing part of a companies overall tasks can safeguard UK jobs.
     
    Posted: Apr 24, 2011 By: OldWelshGuy Member since: Jun 12, 2008
  3. RadiusBPO

    RadiusBPO UKBF Ace Free Member

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    When in the trifle biz all the fruit came from Chile pretty much, this is something about their climate they can grow fruit year round and kept us in supply.

    Without outsourcing the growing of the fruit we would only be able to make them as long as there was British stock. This could be possible but we'd need to make more farms and perhaps take away land use for livestock or grains. Most British fruit is eaten fresh and not used as an ingredient so there would need to be a massive upscale and I don't think we'd like the farms to produce less meat etc.
    Although possible I just don't ever see that happening, prices would just go up and poorer people wouldn't be able to afford their Easter trifle.

    Without that outsourcing the factory would have to reduce production therefore reducing staffing levels. Because they were able to source cheap fruit it means the British Dairy farmers were selling more dairy, there was a small local factory employing 50 people just producing sponges for the trifles, and 500 people at the trifle factory making cream, custard, QC, accounting, purchasing, managing.

    I really cannot see that working if all fruit had to be from the UK, basically just because of the limited land we have.
     
    Posted: Apr 24, 2011 By: RadiusBPO Member since: Jun 11, 2010
  4. bdw

    bdw Banned

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    Fruit (or food that we cannot grow ourselves) in not a good comparison.
     
    Posted: Apr 24, 2011 By: bdw Member since: Aug 13, 2008
  5. MASSEY

    MASSEY UKBF Legend Full Member

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    I think fruit is a good example.

    The businesses from outside of the Uk think, "hey lets sell some fruit in the Uk".

    So they do, they grow it in their own country for pennies and then sell it to us Brits and ten fold what it costs them to grow it at.

    They then pay tax in this country, and the reason they have done this is because they know the UK is a good place to do business.

    For as many people in the UK there are that like to outsource to save, there are people abroad looking to sell here to make serious money.

    It's all swings and roundabouts.

    Certain people on this forum think it would be ok and acceptable if the people in the UK cut themselves off from the outside world and kept wealth here. If we were to do that we would be ruined.
     
    Posted: Apr 24, 2011 By: MASSEY Member since: Nov 29, 2009
  6. bdw

    bdw Banned

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    Yes, but I understood that the thread was about employing people in the Philippines as opposed to importing stuff from abroad. Fact is we are not self sufficient, we need to import certain things and there is nothing we we can do about that.
     
    Posted: Apr 25, 2011 By: bdw Member since: Aug 13, 2008
  7. OldWelshGuy

    OldWelshGuy UKBF Legend Staff Member

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    So then to those that state 'outsourcing services is evil' what do you suggest? What is your alternative?

    If the alternative is that the business closes (because believe me that is the stark reality for many small business service providers) then how can it bo wrong?

    What is the difference between buying in fruit and buying in labour? fruit IS available all year round in the Uk, ANY FRUIT! but it is not available because of the cost. now you can dress that fact up as much as you like, but I am telling you that fruit can be force grown anywhere in the world.

    SO you are saying on one hand that it is Ok to import fruit due to economic restrictions, but NOT OK to import labour ? A little bit of hypocrysy there don't you think?

    Some people absolutely point balank refuse to grow their businesses because of UK employment laws and other red tape. This is no different in my eyes, to people refusing to force grow fruit veg, flowers etc because of costs.

    Now convince me I am wrong :)
     
    Posted: Apr 25, 2011 By: OldWelshGuy Member since: Jun 12, 2008
  8. bdw

    bdw Banned

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    I think most people would agree that you are wrong. Growing all types of fruit and vegetables at sustainable levels in the UK is impossible for both economic and climate reasons. There really is no sensible option other than to import it.

    .
     
    Posted: Apr 25, 2011 By: bdw Member since: Aug 13, 2008
  9. Podge

    Podge UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    That begs the question then why did they go into business in the first place. I can understand businesses being cautious but to say they refuse to grow is stretching it a bit imo.
     
    Posted: Apr 25, 2011 By: Podge Member since: Jan 13, 2011
  10. adventurelife

    adventurelife UKBF Ace Full Member

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    I am afraid that is correct. Go on any business forum or to business networking meeting and it will be full of one person companies refusing to grow and recruit.

    I totally disagree with is as I think they are taking more risk staying as one person than as an employer if they do want a business but it is reality.

    Also many go into business just to take control of there own lives and do not want the hassle and bull of being and employer and just want a lifestyle and that I do accept and respect.

    Which brings us round to this thread, if you make it difficult to employ in one place businesses will just employ in another place. It is globalization and it cannot be reversed.
     
    Posted: Apr 25, 2011 By: adventurelife Member since: Dec 2, 2007
  11. Jacksonii

    Jacksonii UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    You wrote so many words, which makes me have no time to read all of them. So basicly what you mean is to work in Philippines is better than UK right?
     
    Posted: Apr 26, 2011 By: Jacksonii Member since: Apr 25, 2011
  12. OldWelshGuy

    OldWelshGuy UKBF Legend Staff Member

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    Thanks for telling me exactly what I wanted to hear :) So you are saying that it is acceptable to outsource for economic reasons! (your words) .

    If the options are close down, or outsource, wouldn't you agree that outsourcing is a 'sensible option'.

    The point I am making is that under your rules it is unnacceptable to pay £5 per punnet for force grown strawberries (and despite you stating it is not possible it is possible (maybe not practical but that was not what i said) to force grow pretty much any plant anywhere in the world.

    SO it is accceptable to put out of business force growers (the biggest force growing industry here is flowers) for 'economic reasons' (importing from across the globe ) but NOT acceptable to outsource services in other industries.

    Can't you see that this is just double standards?

    For the record, can you state at which point 'economic reasons' are acceptable, and at which point outsourcing become s ''sensible option'?

    Because when the dust settles it is all about money. and if something isn't workable here, then businesses outsource it.
     
    Posted: Apr 27, 2011 By: OldWelshGuy Member since: Jun 12, 2008
  13. bdw

    bdw Banned

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    Importing and outsourcing are two different thing but then you already knew that when you made the post did you not?

    Then it's not worth considering.

    .
     
    Posted: Apr 27, 2011 By: bdw Member since: Aug 13, 2008
  14. OldWelshGuy

    OldWelshGuy UKBF Legend Staff Member

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    There is no economical difference between importing and outsourcing absolutely none whatsoever. And as it was an economical case you were putting up, surely you must see this.

    Now if it is a MORAL case you are putting up then i agree that possibly importing and outsourcing are different beasts.

    Not sure whay you say that 'not practical' is not worth considering because you are actually stating that outsourcing is fine if it is 'impractical' in this country. Stating that completly undermines your argument.

    e.g. I have £8 per hour to employ someone to carry out this task...
    The cost of employing someone in the UK would be £8.05
    It is imp[ractical to employ someone in the Uk
    Outsourcing is now acceptable under your formula!

    Thanks for finally agreeing with us then that for practical reasons outsourcing is completely acceptable.

    I love it when plan comes together :p
     
    Posted: Apr 27, 2011 By: OldWelshGuy Member since: Jun 12, 2008
  15. JohnnyCash

    JohnnyCash Guest

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    You could make an argument that in the moral case, outsourcing a job is better. Outsourcing 2 jobs from the UK probably creates 3 jobs abroad (working slower writing in a second language). So there is an extra person in work right away.

    And employing people in Manila frees them from working in a dangerous factory or some other nasty job, and might actually be the difference between being able to eat that week or not. If you don't hire someone in UK its going to make no difference to whether they have a roof over their head, food on the table, a car, a plasma tv, a Spanish holiday... the government will take care of all of that :)

    Just depends whether you feel you owe people anything purely because they're born in the same country you were. Me personally, I don't.
     
    Posted: Apr 27, 2011 By: JohnnyCash Member since: Dec 8, 2010
  16. bdw

    bdw Banned

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    Did I agree with you? I don't think so and I haven't a clue what you are on about here. Actually I think you are on one of your stirring missions again but I don't have time right now. Perhaps some other time. :p

    Yes, you have made that quite clear more than once. :(

    .
     
    Posted: Apr 27, 2011 By: bdw Member since: Aug 13, 2008
  17. OldWelshGuy

    OldWelshGuy UKBF Legend Staff Member

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    BDW, yep, I am teasing you. The fact is as posted. there is no right and wrong with regard outsourcing. Thgere is no 'loser' in the UK because that job would not have ever been created in the UK.

    here is my take on things.

    Company outsources work
    company informs clients it outsources work
    client decides if they want to work with company that outsources work.


    Need to say that for the purpose of the argument 'outsourcing' refers also to actually having an office and employed people in a country other than the UK, as opposed to taking work and simply passing it on to someone else to do, and skimming the difference .

    there are many companies in the Uk who outsource within the UK.
     
    Posted: Apr 27, 2011 By: OldWelshGuy Member since: Jun 12, 2008
  18. sirearl

    sirearl UKBF Legend Free Member

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    Not even a tiddly bit for all the privileges you enjoyed growing up in the UK.:eek::D

    Earl
     
    Posted: Apr 27, 2011 By: sirearl Member since: Apr 23, 2007
  19. adventurelife

    adventurelife UKBF Ace Full Member

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    Earl

    We all owe the country no one can argue that. Those that went before us paid into the system with blood , tax and sweat so we do all owe the country, all of us who live here.

    However, there is also a limit. I have given 15 years to military service and a bucket load of tax from working and running businesses.

    I have to admit I am getting to the stage where running businesses and employing people in the UK is starting to grind me down. I must be getting old:eek:

    UK loss other countries gain and as much as I will always have business here I am afraid the loyalty is slipping away and I am not the only one doing the same!
     
    Posted: Apr 27, 2011 By: adventurelife Member since: Dec 2, 2007
  20. JohnnyCash

    JohnnyCash Guest

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    I think I've paid more than my fair share of tax to cover the education I've had and so on. So no, I don't feel like I owe any country anything at all.
     
    Posted: Apr 27, 2011 By: JohnnyCash Member since: Dec 8, 2010
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