Employing in Philippines - I'll never hire in UK again.

Discussion in 'General Business Forum' started by JohnnyCash, Feb 3, 2011.

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  1. OldWelshGuy

    OldWelshGuy UKBF Legend Staff Member

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    So ALL outsourcing is bad and by the same token ALL importing is bad.

    So what about the companies that outsource their admin, but manufacture in the UK? What about the companies that create wealth in the Uk by outsourcing part of the work abroad?

    Life is not as balck and white as you are painting it is it? Surely not?
     
    Posted: Apr 23, 2011 By: OldWelshGuy Member since: Jun 12, 2008
  2. bdw

    bdw Banned

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    Your words, not mine.
     
    Posted: Apr 23, 2011 By: bdw Member since: Aug 13, 2008
  3. OldWelshGuy

    OldWelshGuy UKBF Legend Staff Member

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    Well obviously my words, but I am trying to get a grasp on what the problem is.

    You have one poster slagging off 3 retailers for importing low cost items which put others out of business, while at the same time admitting importing himself? To me the acti of importing is either ok or not, or is there (as I suggested) some sort of importation quality control which means that you can import as long as it is not low cost, kinda like importi snobbery :D

    So how about you answer the questions I posed then BDW, the scenario where a manufacturing company in the uk outsources payroll and other services like customer service for example. is that bad?
    How about a company that creates far more money in the UK via sales, than it outsources. e.g. £1m in outsourced labour, compared to £50M in uk sales (and associated jobs)

    I am trying to get a handle on this black and white statement you made here
    how can making a UK company more profitable, creating wealth in the Uk, be 'putting them on the dole'? Or again are we down to outsourcing is Ok as long as it doesn't cost UK jobs? I genuinely struggle to find any agreed demarkation here beyond protectionalism and NIMBY ism :(
     
    Posted: Apr 23, 2011 By: OldWelshGuy Member since: Jun 12, 2008
  4. sirearl

    sirearl UKBF Legend Free Member

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    Most countries seem to think so.;)

    Balance of payments and all that stuff.

    The more we do for ourselves the better off we are.

    See:

    Industrial revolution.:)

    Earl
     
    Posted: Apr 23, 2011 By: sirearl Member since: Apr 23, 2007
  5. Podge

    Podge UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    The way I see it and as much as I don't like it if the british consumer is prepared to spend their money on cheaper imports then we don't really have an argument against employers spending their money on cheap outsourced labour. Both are affecting the quality of life in the UK.
     
    Posted: Apr 23, 2011 By: Podge Member since: Jan 13, 2011
  6. Dawg

    Dawg UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    Complete absolute rubbish.
    See: Trade, specialization, comparative advantage, economics 101.
    Importing is a form of outsourcing. British wealth was built on importing and exporting, (outsourcing and being outsourced to). Wealth creation has never worked on isolation, doing it ourselves, or sitting behind tariff walls.

    The strength of the Industrial revolution, the wealth it created, was based on importing raw materials and exporting finished goods. The UK's comparative advantage was that we were first, and at the time did it better than anyone else. We no longer have that comparative advantage which is why we are no longer a major economic power, and are outsourcing production rather than finished goods.
     
    Posted: Apr 23, 2011 By: Dawg Member since: Feb 12, 2006
  7. OldWelshGuy

    OldWelshGuy UKBF Legend Staff Member

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    The world is changing and people have to understand that we have a global economy and just as in the past coal would go from one area of the country to another, the same is true but it crosses country boundaries. Fish is caught in the Uk, processed in China and shipped back for example. The companies catching, packaging, transporting, and retailing the fish ALL employ, and ALL make profits. BUT if the massive cost of processing wasn't outsourced, then that line would not be profitable, and all the others who are employed as a result would lose out!
     
    Posted: Apr 23, 2011 By: OldWelshGuy Member since: Jun 12, 2008
  8. atmosbob

    atmosbob UKBF Ace Free Member

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    Think level playing fields. Some countries have high standards of health, safety, education etc etc. Others with much much lower standards, and in some instances serious human rights abuses have lower wages. Importing from a low wage/low living standards country undermines high wage/ high standards country's economy.

    I import print from Italy because I get better service and quality than I can in the UK. The price is very similar and the wages in Italy are also comparable to printers' wages here.
     
    Posted: Apr 23, 2011 By: atmosbob Member since: Oct 26, 2009
  9. OldWelshGuy

    OldWelshGuy UKBF Legend Staff Member

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    And presumably you insist on full disclosure of raw materials provenance to ensure none of your moral standards were breached anywhere along the supply chain. This includes ensuring that all timber used for a phot frame for example has complete suypply chain transparency.

    As I said previously, it is down to import snobbery :D
     
    Posted: Apr 23, 2011 By: OldWelshGuy Member since: Jun 12, 2008
  10. atmosbob

    atmosbob UKBF Ace Free Member

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    Nothing to do with snobbery. I happen to use the most environmentally sound paper available but I am not being moral about this.
     
    Posted: Apr 23, 2011 By: atmosbob Member since: Oct 26, 2009
  11. sirearl

    sirearl UKBF Legend Free Member

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    See in the short term sounds great,but wait till the cheapo labour countries catch up with western wage rate a la Japan.

    http://www.therecycler.com/news/15108/Minimum-wage-increases-in-China.aspx

    Earl
     
    Posted: Apr 23, 2011 By: sirearl Member since: Apr 23, 2007
  12. sirearl

    sirearl UKBF Legend Free Member

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    Just to bring you up to speed laddie.

    It was coal and iron that brought about the industrial revolution.:p

    Earl
     
    Posted: Apr 23, 2011 By: sirearl Member since: Apr 23, 2007
  13. Dawg

    Dawg UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    Without trade, imports and exports, (for instance cotton) there would have been no use for iron machines powered by coal. Without raw materials to put through machines nobody would have bought or made expensive iron machines and employed men to dig coal up to run those machines with.
    Without domestic or export markets for the machines made of iron, the machines would not have been made.
    Without trade, imports and exports, there would have been a very small, sad Industrial Revolution, more like an Industrial Whinge, (why does that seem pertinent to today?)

    Laddie.
     
    Posted: Apr 23, 2011 By: Dawg Member since: Feb 12, 2006
  14. OldWelshGuy

    OldWelshGuy UKBF Legend Staff Member

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    Ah apologies we appear to be debating different things. The htread is debating the economic rights and worngs of outsourcing (importing services). I thought you were arguing that outsourcing is wrong, but importing (same thing different name) is OK as long as the imports are of a high enough standard, which was why I used the term 'import snobbery'.

    Seems like your position is another thread on its own really.

    Apologies for the misunderstanding.
     
    Posted: Apr 23, 2011 By: OldWelshGuy Member since: Jun 12, 2008
  15. atmosbob

    atmosbob UKBF Ace Free Member

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    The Industrial Revolution started here in Cornwall.

    http://www.trevithick-society.org.uk/trevithick.htm for a bit of background.
     
    Posted: Apr 23, 2011 By: atmosbob Member since: Oct 26, 2009
  16. Dawg

    Dawg UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    Posted: Apr 23, 2011 By: Dawg Member since: Feb 12, 2006
  17. MASSEY

    MASSEY UKBF Legend Full Member

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    That's right it's not black and white.

    They could be out sourcing the lesser works abroad in order to be able to employ here.
     
    Posted: Apr 23, 2011 By: MASSEY Member since: Nov 29, 2009
  18. sirearl

    sirearl UKBF Legend Free Member

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    Lovely theory.;)

    But I suspect the bottom line is cheapo labour.cheapo goods,bigo profits.:)

    Earl
     
    Posted: Apr 24, 2011 By: sirearl Member since: Apr 23, 2007
  19. OldWelshGuy

    OldWelshGuy UKBF Legend Staff Member

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    Of course economics plays a massive part, but that isn't the point being made. The point is that outsourcing can actually protect jobs as well as cost jobs. Outsourcing assembly for instance could mean that production can remain in place while assembly closes down. So YES it could mean that the asembly jobs are lost, but the manufacturing jobs have been protected. it is no good arguing that the production jobs were lost so that is bad, because the alternative would have been to close the plant entirely.

    Hopefully that illustrates what i am trying to say, in that outsourcing can actiually prevent total closure of businesses.
     
    Posted: Apr 24, 2011 By: OldWelshGuy Member since: Jun 12, 2008
  20. atmosbob

    atmosbob UKBF Ace Free Member

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    Posted: Apr 24, 2011 By: atmosbob Member since: Oct 26, 2009
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