Doing biz with a Nigerian client - what are the risks

Discussion in 'International Business' started by Sparklez35, Jun 23, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. LicensedToTrade

    LicensedToTrade UKBF Legend Free Member

    6,315 2,138
    I think calling us trolls is a little much, it was just an opinion. Yes subbing jobs out is pefectly legal, as is putting on a 3000% mark-up on a product...but it isn't necessarily ethical.

    Ethics aside for the time being (you can charge what you like) is it really sensible to advertise the fact that this is the kind of service your potential customers can expect, I think you have to concede that is isn't.

    No ill-will is intended, I'm just a little bemused.
     
    Posted: Jun 24, 2010 By: LicensedToTrade Member since: Nov 7, 2009
    #81
  2. lesliedocherty

    lesliedocherty UKBF Ace Free Member

    2,300 318
    9 pages, wow
     
    Posted: Jun 24, 2010 By: lesliedocherty Member since: Jun 17, 2006
    #82
  3. captaincloser

    captaincloser Banned

    2,770 1,130
    This woman is dynamite. Can someone sign her up for Panorama ? Her description of hubbies project management credentials are priceless.

    It was my post on page 7 of this thread that questioned the OP's honesty and I stand by it. This woman needs to be allowed to advertise her name and business address on here as a purveyor of Gold standard Rocking Horse dung. A new meaning for project management is born.

    You can call me a troll Madam, it means little, but most reading this thread will see you and hubby as the charlatans that you are.

    ...Project management indeed ...my ar** as Ricky Tomlinson would say.

    You are one side of a two bladed scam and your banks advice is sweet, but the outcome will remain the same. If it's not this crew that bring you down ..your level of greed will find it's own harbour fairly soon.

    I loved the post about Hyacinth Bucket. Indeed... 'My husband...blah blah blah...project management..blah blah.. 12k... Nigerians.. Africa I think ? Blah,,blah blah,,Very nicde young lady with a small apartment and a Blackberry...Yes it will cost us only 400...some other little country will do the work...yes...the bank says its lovely there.... No, No...we are not in that business... My Husband is a PROJECT MANAGER don't you know ....so it's all ok ? I knew I could rely on the bank for sound advice...thank you....We shall buy some more shares in the morning !
     
    Posted: Jun 24, 2010 By: captaincloser Member since: Mar 20, 2010
    #83
  4. oldeagleeye

    oldeagleeye UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    3,979 1,218
    I for one am not a Troll as you put it madam but you have a unique combination of being naive and an aboslute fool if you think that you can get away with taking these peoples money. Make no mistake. They will find some way of getting it back and then it is laundered.

    I might add madam that these people only target greedy fools at that. Need I say more on that subject and I really do suggest that you aplogise for the troll remark.

    All members were doing - including myself were trying to do was warn you of the dangers that you and your family face in risking dealing with these people and if your prepared to jeopodise your families future by ignoring that advice for the price of a 2nd hand escort then I feel sorry for you - and even more so for any children that you might have.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2010
    Posted: Jun 24, 2010 By: oldeagleeye Member since: Jul 16, 2008
    #84
  5. papverpoppies

    papverpoppies UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    6,712 2,214
    Well this is one instance where I would say being called a troll - is not that bad!

    Rather that, than an unethical greedy business person, about to get ripped off, from (if we are correct) some people you should not mess about with!

    In real terms OP you are loosing nothing, as you are vastly thinking of overcharging for the job anyway...so why take the risk?

    Keep your pride, your bank details and whatever else you have, and simply leave well alone.
    What you never have, you never miss - but that will not the case if you go down the road of trying to out fox these people.

    Poppy xx
     
    Posted: Jun 24, 2010 By: papverpoppies Member since: Apr 8, 2009
    #85
  6. Officebird

    Officebird UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    1,384 606
    Wow! I outsource to Associate VAs when I'm busy and thanks to this thread I now know I'm paying them way too much lol.

    Thanks for keeping me entertained whilst I ate my sarnie :)
     
    Posted: Jun 24, 2010 By: Officebird Member since: Mar 14, 2008
    #86
  7. Sparklez35

    Sparklez35 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    60 2
    Why do you think we are overcharging for the job?

    Do you know a British based IT firm that will do it for less using British employed labour?

    Anyone with an ounce of savvy in the IT biz will tell you that software development in the UK using British labour is all but reduced to nothing. Its because its lost to competition in Asia. The only exception is the blue-chip and government contracts market accepting tenderbids £120,000 for a microsite because its policially-correct to use British labour. We diversified. We moved our developement operation to Chennai and we are still going strong while our competition went out of biz years ago.

    There is nothing "unethical" about it, its sound (and legal) business practice. This is nothing to do with trying to "out-fox" anybody, we follow our bank's advice and will only accept a BACS transfer.

    We came to this forum to see if others could share their experience on trading with a client in Nigeria. The advice is generally good. I didnt expect the thread to be turned into a flame war by saying we are 'ripping' somebody off. It says alot about their business acumen of those who spent the night on this forum clearly nothing better to do.

    I therefore make no apologies for the trolls comment or for your hurt feelings. Get over it.
     
    Posted: Jun 24, 2010 By: Sparklez35 Member since: Sep 30, 2008
    #87
  8. Faevilangel

    Faevilangel Website Critic Free Member

    7,564 2,408
    There is outsourcing and there is ripping someone off. Charging a client £12000 for a £400 job is excessive. I would want to know if my job that I supplied to a UK company was being done by a chinese guy in Chennai.

    If I wanted a chinese guy I would go straight to them, but the client came to you to do it. If you cannot do the job, why do you bid for it? It just seems you're using your clients as cash cows and not doing the job you're being paid for.
     
    Posted: Jun 24, 2010 By: Faevilangel Member since: Jun 29, 2009
    #88
  9. papverpoppies

    papverpoppies UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    6,712 2,214
    I think this explains beautifully what the OP is about.


    Poppy xx
     
    Posted: Jun 24, 2010 By: papverpoppies Member since: Apr 8, 2009
    #89
  10. Sparklez35

    Sparklez35 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    60 2
    That goes to show you really know what you're talking about. Really useful.

    Who said we bid for it?
     
    Posted: Jun 24, 2010 By: Sparklez35 Member since: Sep 30, 2008
    #90
  11. OldWelshGuy

    OldWelshGuy UKBF Legend { Moderator }

    20,507 7,070
    Please stop the flaming ladies and gents.
     
    Posted: Jun 24, 2010 By: OldWelshGuy Member since: Jun 12, 2008
    #91
  12. LicensedToTrade

    LicensedToTrade UKBF Legend Free Member

    6,315 2,138
    Well no, but that is the point...it is British Labour. If someone is employing a UK based programmer they know it won't be the cheapest, but they expect it to be of a high standard. If they wanted bargain basement they would go straight to India and cut-out the middle man.

    How disappointed would you be if you bought beef described as 100% Organic British Beef for £12 and then found out it was imported Indian Beef that cost them 40 pence? I would say fairly disappointed.
     
    Posted: Jun 24, 2010 By: LicensedToTrade Member since: Nov 7, 2009
    #92
  13. Sparklez35

    Sparklez35 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    60 2
    Is it?

    The client is free to go elsewhere if they want.
     
    Posted: Jun 24, 2010 By: Sparklez35 Member since: Sep 30, 2008
    #93
  14. LicensedToTrade

    LicensedToTrade UKBF Legend Free Member

    6,315 2,138
    I can't speak for everyone but I don't think I am 'flaming'. As far as I am concerned, ethics is an extremely important factor in business and therefore warrants discussion. This isn't off topic either, the thread asked about scamming and I think this is relevant.
     
    Posted: Jun 24, 2010 By: LicensedToTrade Member since: Nov 7, 2009
    #94
  15. OldWelshGuy

    OldWelshGuy UKBF Legend { Moderator }

    20,507 7,070
    Sparklez, stop for a moment and read YOUR OWN post!

    WHY are these streetwise clients not going elsewhere? WHY?
     
    Posted: Jun 24, 2010 By: OldWelshGuy Member since: Jun 12, 2008
    #95
  16. OldWelshGuy

    OldWelshGuy UKBF Legend { Moderator }

    20,507 7,070
    Those posting within the rules have nothing to be concerned about. :)
     
    Posted: Jun 24, 2010 By: OldWelshGuy Member since: Jun 12, 2008
    #96
  17. Sparklez35

    Sparklez35 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    60 2
    They can if they want to.

    The contract does not specify the work has to be done in the UK.

    The standard of programming is higher than it is in the UK. This is down to draconian terms in the 2002 Employment Act which makes it hard and expensive to ditch useless coders. In Chennai we can select top coders quickly and cheaply and are always very grateful to be given the work.
     
    Posted: Jun 24, 2010 By: Sparklez35 Member since: Sep 30, 2008
    #97
  18. papverpoppies

    papverpoppies UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    6,712 2,214
    I feel the same.

    The OP came on here asking should her company do business with the Nigerians.

    Then when the answers started to stack up as a no no,

    Two wrongs do not make a right.

    Ethics are everything and not just in business..

    I am disguted that someone can post on a open forum that a job costing £400.00 can be charged at £10.000+, if they may be about to get scammed themsleves.

    In this instance is the so called flaming a worse crime than bad company ethics..

    Poppy xx

    I am sorry if I have stepped over the forum line - but this is surely bad business practice.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 24, 2010
    Posted: Jun 24, 2010 By: papverpoppies Member since: Apr 8, 2009
    #98
  19. Naughty Vend

    Naughty Vend UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    948 179
    Exact-a-mundo Poppy . . . :)

    To the OP, your Nigerian contact can not justify paying a large ammount into a bank account when the job cost is only a grand if they are indeed laundering money... which by the way, they are...

    Greedy people atract scam artisist and you must never be arrogant as to what the sum £X,XXX.XX means to you relative to the person finally receiving it, you even get this difference between the North and South of Britain never mind Africa, Asia and Western Europe so be vigilant and understand relatively speaking why the scam artist is willing to go to so much trouble. The team you met are the well spoken English fluent 'hook' team to rope you in, all seems good but there are several levels of scam you could be targeted with despite precautions...

    (1) Money laundering and the use of your name to buy contraband, guns etc via identity theft.
    (2) The Standing Order / Direct Debit pinch, you sign a contract and they have your bank details, they launder the money and then transfer it straight back out. They have your signature remember...
    (3) The Dinner Date, you go out for a meal and they watch you enter your PIN into the terminal, they have your bank details... bye bye money.

    As to whether charging too much is a crime, well no but on a commercial level and for longevity of business it's never a wise move unless you are into one hit wonders and building a relationship upon trust and repeat custom is what builds a "business" rather than a "market stall" so that is your own decision. If you have a good service and it's worth the money the value is relative to whose gaining from it, a £10k website may make a company five times as much opposed to a £500 website which may just be a business card online so let those with the humph blow steam.

    My advice is walk away from anything to do with Africa period because it's just not worth the hassle, simple as...
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2010
    Posted: Jun 24, 2010 By: Naughty Vend Member since: Aug 5, 2007
    #99
  20. Sparklez35

    Sparklez35 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    60 2
    Im not sure who you mean when you say "streetwise clients"

    That's the point, clients ARE going elsewhere. & if we didnt then we would no longer be in IT today and would be in the same boat as our former competitors - working as cab drivers and signing on.

    We diversified for the same reason IT giants do, e.g. Norton - who make their Internet Security software - It is developned in Chennai a few streets away from ours.
     
    Posted: Jun 24, 2010 By: Sparklez35 Member since: Sep 30, 2008
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.