Directors personal assists

Discussion in 'Insolvency' started by QueenBee20, May 17, 2020.

  1. QueenBee20

    QueenBee20 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    12 4

    I am hoping some one here can help.

    Background - I have occasionally sub contracted to a Ltd company, as part of my due diligence I have a watch on them with companies house.

    The company has recently appointed a voluntary liquidator - this is not an issue for my company as all payments are up to date and no services have been provided since the last payment was made.

    The statement of affairs on companies house shows over 175k owing to HMRC.
    This LTD is a one man outfit so I suspect some foul play for this amount of debt to arise(?).

    Am I right in thinking that it likely HMRC will pursue the director personally to recover a sum of this amount?

    I ask because I am currently in negotiations with the sole director of this company to purchase a personal asset of theirs. I am considering holding out on the deal at the moment in case HMRC put a charge on the asset . Is this a possibility?
    Posted: May 17, 2020 By: QueenBee20 Member since: Mar 29, 2020
  2. Gavin Bates

    Gavin Bates UKBF Enthusiast Free Member

    664 133

    Obviously any large HMRC debt is a concern but that is a matter for the liquidator to look at not necessarily HMRC.

    if there is any action against it may be many months / years so you may to have to wait some time.


    Posted: May 17, 2020 By: Gavin Bates Member since: May 9, 2016
  3. The Byre

    The Byre UKBF Ace Free Member

    9,784 3,952
    It can depend on the nature of the asset and other circumstances. Sometimes HMRC has the first bite and sometimes they come in second after the banks (I believe the rules changed this year) - but if dirty deads were done dirt cheap, well, then the rules change and under certain circumstances, the assets may be deemed to not have changed ownership.

    There are also debts that can travel with the asset, such as certain import duties. That happened to a German company we used to buy office stuff from - they imported CPUs via an agent in Switzerland who secretly had falsified the paperwork and when the balloon went up, he legged it and the company in Germany was faced with a bill for €60m.

    They had to take down their tents, break camp, smash crockery and hurl giraffes. They also had to turn out their pockets and show the German taxpayer the old white-eared elephant.
    Posted: May 17, 2020 By: The Byre Member since: Aug 13, 2013
  4. Chris Ashdown

    Chris Ashdown UKBF Legend Free Member

    11,471 2,364
    I was under the impression that you need to contact the IP and make a offer
    Posted: May 17, 2020 By: Chris Ashdown Member since: Dec 7, 2003
  5. KAC

    KAC UKBF Ace Free Member

    1,156 260
    I guess a lot depends upon the type of asset and how ownership is proved. At this stage, unless you know otherwise, the company's debts stay with the limited company.
    Posted: May 17, 2020 By: KAC Member since: May 7, 2017
  6. QueenBee20

    QueenBee20 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    12 4
    Thanks for the replies !

    The asset is a parcel of land. Land registry records don’t show any charge on the land. I am trying to get the best price on this although it is certainly still within its market value for the area. No dodgy deals here, I think my best bet is to wait a few weeks and see if the seller can come closer to the price I want to pay.
    Posted: May 17, 2020 By: QueenBee20 Member since: Mar 29, 2020
  7. Porky

    Porky UKBF Regular Full Member

    162 63
    If the land is owned by the limited company then it becomes an asset of the IP to sell at best price. So you would need to contact the IP to make an offer NOT the director of the failed business.

    If the land is owned privately by the Director it’s his to sell or do with as he pleases. He doesn’t have to accept any offer. The two are totally separate legal entities.

    Unless fraud is involved I would doubt very much that he would be personally liable for the HMRC debts of the company. And if for some freak reason he was, he still doesn’t have to sell you the land cheap. I think thats more wishful thinking on your behalf.

    Probably not what you want to hear but it’s how it is.

    Only glimmer of hope I can offer you is that if his business is closing down and his income reduced then he might be prepared to sell the land quick to get some cash in, but unless he is really desperate, he can put the land on the open market for best price.
    Posted: May 17, 2020 By: Porky Member since: Dec 27, 2019
  8. Chris Ashdown

    Chris Ashdown UKBF Legend Free Member

    11,471 2,364
    He may have used the land as a guarantee so worth checking if any liens on it
    Posted: May 18, 2020 By: Chris Ashdown Member since: Dec 7, 2003
  9. Lisa Thomas

    Lisa Thomas UKBF Enthusiast Free Member

    3,486 436
    Now that the Company is in Lqn it is the Liquidator who can pursue the director personally for any monies owed to the Company or any misconduct.

    HMRC will not pursue the Director, they can only pursue him if there has been a case of fraud (and even then they will likely leave it for the Lqr to pursue).

    If the Director enters a personal insolvency procedure - eg Bankruptcy then the Trustee will investigate the sale of the land to you and if it has been at an undervalue, the Trustee can overturn the transaction or pursue you for the difference.
    Posted: May 18, 2020 By: Lisa Thomas Member since: Apr 20, 2015
  10. QueenBee20

    QueenBee20 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    12 4
    Thank you for the replies, it’s much appreciated.
    Posted: May 19, 2020 By: QueenBee20 Member since: Mar 29, 2020