Considering Management Accounting or Financial Accounting, Please Can You Advise Me

[nkingy2003]

I recently posted a thread about becoming a bookkeeper on my way to becoming a chartered accountant. After doing some research it seems pretty clear that the best route would to be go straight for the chartered accountant status rather than doing bookkeeping first.

I just cannot decide between becoming a management accountant or a financial accountant. Please correct me if I'm wrong but the training structures are pretty much the same. I want to become chartered whichever route I take and both the CIMA for Management Accounting and the ACCA for Financial Accounting (I realise there are other bodies I can join but from what I have found others require training contracts) require 3 years relevant work experience. So the timescales are the same and both require you to take a series of exams over the years however CIMA requires you to take a Certificate course first? So based on this the training programs are both pretty much the same however with ACCA you can go straight into the course rather than doing a certificate course first?

I am interested in business management and have ran my own business so this draws me to the management accounting route. I do however intend to work for myself after becoming chartered at some point and feel that financial accounting would allow me to work for myself by building a client portfolio whereas this would be hard as a management accountant as these generally work within a business?

It would be great to hear from either management or financial accountants or anyone else that is familiar with the training and job roles of both these professions.

I think I am leaning towards financial accounting as this would give me a better chance of being able to set up on my own in the future. I also feel that the training may be better for me as I can go straight into the ACCA course rather than doing a certificate course first like I would have to do with the CIMA.

Why do all other Accounting professional bodies such as IEACW require you to have a training contract whereas the ACCA does not? Does this make the ACCA a lesser qualification?

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

It is ICAEW.

There are arguments for and against any of the professional bodies qualification and only you can decide.

It is not - this one is the best. (although ICAEW is best of course)

Each offer different things.

The main thing to establish if you have the acumen for the role.

What have you done towards a career in accounting so far?

 

[forrest]

Hi,

Speaking as a passed CIMA finalist, and someone who is hopefully going to help a relative set up a limited company, hopefully I can offer you some advice!

Firstly, about where I'm coming from. I work in a reasonably large organisation and studied CIMA whilst working in a non-accountancy role (still a finance type-role, but not really dealing with any accounting apart from IAS39). I went to BPP to study CIMA as home study would have been much more difficult!

So my first piece of advice would be to go to a college to study for the qualification, it makes it much easier to grasp what's going as there is a huge amount of topics in each module (which is the main difficulty I found with CIMA, and not the complexity of the issues covered).

In terms of which qualification to go for, I did enjoy studying for CIMA, and I believe it has given me some knowledge that I can transfer into my workplace. However, I am currently looking into helping my brother turn his sole trader business into a limited company, and this is where my knowledge is slightly lacking. Financial reports are covered in CIMA, but if you are looking for a qualification that is going to tell you what you need to actually report from a nuts and bolts standpoint, I believe it to be somewhat lacking.

What I think CIMA is good at is the more 'fluffy' stuff in business, such as HR and marketing, and giving a good background knowledge to other aspects of business such as forecasting, accounts, tax and financing. It won't make you an expert on any of the subjects it teaches, but can give a good grounding which can be built upon with a little further research.

Your post says your are interested in business management, but are looking to set up on your own in future. CIMA is definitely good for the former, but for the latter, further study will probably be needed (which I am finding out now unfortunately!)

I'm afraid I can't really comment on ACCA, so hopefully someone else will be able to chip in.

(And apologies if my answer seems a little rambled, I've never offered this type of advice to anyone, and I've done it either side of an hour and a half meeting!)

Hope I've helped!

Mark

 

[nkingy2003]

It is ICAEW.

There are arguments for and against any of the professional bodies qualification and only you can decide.

It is not - this one is the best. (although ICAEW is best of course)

Each offer different things.

The main thing to establish if you have the acumen for the role.

What have you done towards a career in accounting so far?

My Apologies, ICAEW. Why do you say this is best? Are you a member with them?

I trained as a quantity surveyor for a year which is basically the accounting of the construction world. Was involved in monthly reports and many of financial reports.

I then ran my own business for 18 months which meant doing my own books and tax returns. I also had an employee which meant I needed payroll, I didnt do the payroll myself, I got an accountant to do this for me but I did get a good insight into payroll this way.

 

[nkingy2003]

Thanks for the advice Mark.

I think I am leaning towards ACCA now as this would give me more opportunity to set up on my own in future. I also think that there are more employments opportunities as a financial accountant rather than a management accountant.

It would be great to hear from anyone who has gone through or is going through the ACCA training.

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

My Apologies, ICAEW. Why do you say this is best? Are you a member with them?
.

Yes I am a member (clue in my signature - Chartered Accountant) and trained in practice.

As I said before each is best for different things

 

[nkingy2003]

Yes I am a member (clue in my signature - Chartered Accountant) and trained in practice.

Surely that doesn't necessarily mean you are a member of ICAEW?

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

From the ICAEW help sheets:

In the regulations the term ‘chartered accountant’ means a
member of the Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and
Wales (the Institute) or a member of one of the following bodies:
 The Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland
 The Institute of Chartered Accountants in Ireland
 The Institute of Chartered Accountants in Australia
 The Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants
 The South African Institute of Chartered Accountants
 The Institute of Chartered Accountants of Zimbabwe
 The Institute of Chartered Accountants of New Zealand.

 

[forrest]

and you can call yourself a Chartered Management Accountant if you pass CIMA, and I think a Qualified (or is it certified) Accounting if you pass ACCA (and get the experience etc).

I my experience, no one qualification will stand out from the rest and produce 'the best'. Becoming a Chartered Accountant is considered the more traditional route and is given some (deserved) prestige. Yet, some of the most incompetent people I have worked with have been chartered (which of course is not the same as saying all the chartered accountants I've met are incompetent!) Basically, the qualification alone won't turn you into a good accountant or business manager, but I reckon all three will be able to give you a good back-bone of knowledge on which to build on.

 

[Neilh]

I think I am leaning towards ACCA now as this would give me more opportunity to set up on my own in future.

Check out the ACCA practice regulations. The professional bodies wont allow you to set up on your own unless you hold their practising certificate. To gain the ACCA practice certificate will require experience with an approved employer, some of which must be gained after gaining the ACCA qualifcation.

I also think that there are more employments opportunities as a financial accountant rather than a management accountant.

I think that depends on point of view. The terms financial accounting and management accounting are really quite broad and can overlap somewhat.

Neil

 

[nkingy2003]

Can't you call yourself a Chartered Certified Accountant with ACCA? As it is the Association of Chartered Certified Accountants. Anyway, it doesn't matter what you call yourself as long as you can show you are competent and professional qualified.

Another reason for choosing ACCA is that the other bodies except for CIMA require you to gain a training contract. I was hoping to get a position within an accounting practice for perhaps 3-4 days per week and then study for the ACCA the other 1-2 days per week.

 

[Jenni384]

Can't you call yourself a Chartered Certified Accountant with ACCA? As it is the Association of Chartered Certified Accountants. Anyway, it doesn't matter what you call yourself as long as you can show you are competent and professional qualified.

You can't call yourself a CA, you have to call yourself a Chartered Certified Accountant with the ACCA.

 

[nkingy2003]

You can't call yourself a CA, you have to call yourself a Chartered Certified Accountant with the ACCA.

Yes that's what I thought.

I am contacting a number of accountancy practices this afternoon to hopefully get a further insight and enquire about possible vacancies.

 

[yorkshirejames]

From the ICAEW help sheets:

In the regulations the term ‘chartered accountant’ means a
member of the Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and
Wales (the Institute) or a member of one of the following bodies:
 The Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland
 The Institute of Chartered Accountants in Ireland
 The Institute of Chartered Accountants in Australia
 The Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants
 The South African Institute of Chartered Accountants
 The Institute of Chartered Accountants of Zimbabwe
 The Institute of Chartered Accountants of New Zealand.

This is interesting Elaine. Is this just ICAEW's opinion of who can use the term, or is this enshrined in 'law' somewhere? I've known plenty of CIMA and ACCA people refer to themselves as a "chartered accountant", and in the recruitment world they seem to use the term "chartered accountant" to refer to holder of any CCAB qualification.

Anyone got any information on the Zimbabwean course then?

My own advice - stop thinking of ACCA or CIMA as "financial accounting" and "management accounting" in that order. Both courses cover both topics. Do CIMA if you want to work for a large / medium company and do ACCA if you want to work for a small accountancy practice dealing with small companies/sole traders/etc.

Or (given the nature of the jobs market) apply for jobs doing either, see what you get offered, then see what course they want you to do (and will pay towards).

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

James

I think they should refer to the regulations of their institute where they will be told how they can refer to themselves.

Their regs will allow them to be called Chartered Mang or Chartered Certified but not Chartered Accountant.

The regs of the IACEw clearly state who can sue the terms Chartered Accountant.

if someone else uses it them the ICAEW can take action.

In fact I had an instance of a firm once using the ICAEW logo when they clearly were not allowed to do so - phoned Ethics helpline who contacted them and the logo soon disappeared from their web site.

Hope this helps

 

[Sally Wainwright ACMA]

I recently posted a thread about becoming a bookkeeper on my way to becoming a chartered accountant. After doing some research it seems pretty clear that the best route would to be go straight for the chartered accountant status rather than doing bookkeeping first.

I just cannot decide between becoming a management accountant or a financial accountant. Please correct me if I'm wrong but the training structures are pretty much the same. I want to become chartered whichever route I take and both the CIMA for Management Accounting and the ACCA for Financial Accounting (I realise there are other bodies I can join but from what I have found others require training contracts) require 3 years relevant work experience. So the timescales are the same and both require you to take a series of exams over the years however CIMA requires you to take a Certificate course first? So based on this the training programs are both pretty much the same however with ACCA you can go straight into the course rather than doing a certificate course first?

I am interested in business management and have ran my own business so this draws me to the management accounting route. I do however intend to work for myself after becoming chartered at some point and feel that financial accounting would allow me to work for myself by building a client portfolio whereas this would be hard as a management accountant as these generally work within a business?

It would be great to hear from either management or financial accountants or anyone else that is familiar with the training and job roles of both these professions.

I think I am leaning towards financial accounting as this would give me a better chance of being able to set up on my own in the future. I also feel that the training may be better for me as I can go straight into the ACCA course rather than doing a certificate course first like I would have to do with the CIMA.

Why do all other Accounting professional bodies such as IEACW require you to have a training contract whereas the ACCA does not? Does this make the ACCA a lesser qualification?

Don't rule out being a CIMA accountant and having your own practice, it is possible to do. You can even register your practice through CIMA. CIMA deals with the commercial aspects of accounting, which are very important, good luck, Sally Wainwright ACMA. Et Voila Accountancy Services Limited

 

[Neilh]

Another reason for choosing ACCA is that the other bodies except for CIMA require you to gain a training contract.

ACCA will virtually require one if you want to work for yourself in the future.

Neil

 

[nkingy2003]

ACCA will virtually require one if you want to work for yourself in the future.

Neil

Im sorry Neil, I haven't seen anything like this since I have been looking at these different bodies.

So you require a training contract if you want to work for yourself in future?

Surely if you have done the exams, done the work experience needed and pay your membership fee's each year you will be a Chartered Certified Accountant and wouldnt need any further training contract to work for yourself?

 

[nkingy2003]

I also wanted to know details about salaries of accountants, financial accountants especially.

I have read articles and surveys about salaries at different levels but want to confirm with on here that they are actually accurate.

Perhaps chartered accountants on here could give me good guidance on this subject although obviously Im not asking you to tell me what your earning.

How much could I expect to earn in say 3 years time once I have completed the qualification and work experience needed and became chartered? Then what could I expect to earn with 5 years experience and so on?

I know this depends on a lot of factors such as area and which sector you work in but any guidance you can give me would be great.

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

How much could I expect to earn in say 3 years time once I have completed the qualification and work experience needed and became chartered? Then what could I expect to earn with 5 years experience and so on?

Depends on how good you are, your location and the type of work you decide to do

Just google salary surveys

 

[Neilh]

Im sorry Neil, I haven't seen anything like this since I have been looking at these different bodies.

So you require a training contract if you want to work for yourself in future?

Surely if you have done the exams, done the work experience needed and pay your membership fee's each year you will be a Chartered Certified Accountant and wouldnt need any further training contract to work for yourself?

As I put in my earlier post, all the professional bodies will require you to hold their own practising certificate (in addition to the main qualification) if you wish to be self employed/partner/director of a firm offering accountancy or related services.

To gain the practising certificate usually requires some post qual experience, additional CDP, insurance etc. To gain the ACCA practising certificate, the ACCA require you to have a minimum of three years experience with an approved employer - at least two years of which must be gained after being admitted to ACCA membership. Without the practising certificate your practice would be limited to book-keeping, VAT and payroll.

Neil

 

[nkingy2003]

Ok thanks for the advice Neil.

 

[yorkshirejames]

I also wanted to know details about salaries of accountants, financial accountants especially.

I have read articles and surveys about salaries at different levels but want to confirm with on here that they are actually accurate.

Perhaps chartered accountants on here could give me good guidance on this subject although obviously Im not asking you to tell me what your earning.

How much could I expect to earn in say 3 years time once I have completed the qualification and work experience needed and became chartered? Then what could I expect to earn with 5 years experience and so on?

I know this depends on a lot of factors such as area and which sector you work in but any guidance you can give me would be great.

My view, as someone who has in the past been looking for jobs, and also as someone who recruits people (for others).

We'll assume somewhere say in the midlands. While studying 15-30k, upon qualified (assuming commensurate work history, and not just someone who has studied full time then helped out in an office) 25-45k, then with five years senior level experience 40-80k. What do others think?

Bet Elaine will tell us that she earns 500k plus has exclusive use of a yacht :-(

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

Bet Elaine will tell us that she earns 500k plus has exclusive use of a yacht :-(

if I told you want I earned i would have to kill you.

Now that sounds tempting

 

[nkingy2003]

Lol!

Well thank you all for the advice. This is definitely something I want to pursue. Now I just have to find employment

 

[yorkshirejames]

Where are you located (in fact, at the top right of this webpage you can add your location). There just might be someone looking for someone....

 

[nkingy2003]

Just updated it now. It should show my location as Newmarket, Suffolk.