Company name change - does this effect my redundancy?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by andrea weeks, May 1, 2009.

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  1. andrea weeks

    andrea weeks UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    Hi
    Hoping that someone may be able to assist.
    My company has just changed it's name but has kept all the directors.
    Will I now lose all my rights for redundancy? as the talk in the building is "yes" If so, is there a legal obligation for them to pay anything at all?
     
    Posted: May 1, 2009 By: andrea weeks Member since: May 1, 2009
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  2. 20note

    20note UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    Changing a company name only changes the name, nothing else whatsoever.

    All existing commitments remain.
     
    Posted: May 1, 2009 By: 20note Member since: Apr 6, 2009
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  3. Lime One

    Lime One UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    Check out that it is a name change only and not a completely new company, if you need assistance with this just PM with the company name and I will let you know.
     
    Posted: May 1, 2009 By: Lime One Member since: Apr 26, 2008
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  4. andrea weeks

    andrea weeks UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    Hi

    You are so kind, many thanks

    The company was JP Moran and is now called Ambassador Holdings
    Thanks again in advance
     
    Posted: May 4, 2009 By: andrea weeks Member since: May 1, 2009
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  5. Wild Goose

    Wild Goose UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    Something odd here. I'll walk you through it.

    First, do a google search on the word "webcheck". Go to the Companies House webcheck site, which will come near the top of the Google results.

    From Webcheck, you will be able to type in any company's name and perform a search. "J P Moran & Co Ltd" company number 02807151 produces results contrary to what you think: first off it was a dormant company at the time its most recent accounts were filed, April 2008. The company type is a "non-trading company". It changed its name only a few days ago (on 27 April 2009) from Ambassador Homes Ltd.

    What we know is that this company has started trading since 30th April 2008. Certainly couldn't have traded as J P Moran & Co Ltd though - not before 27th April 2009 at any rate. By the way, we'll stick to identifying that company by its number 02807151 (you'll see why next). By the way, you can vhange a company name but not its company reg number - the number is permanent.

    Onwards to a search on Ambassador Holdings Ltd., company no 01991234. That's listed as a medium sized company in General Construction & civil engineering, which appears to have traded for many years.

    What's interesting about Ambassador Holdings Ltd is that it too changed its name on 27th April 2009 - a few days ago - to Ambassador Holdings Ltd, and its previous name was J P Moran & Co Ltd. Gadzooks! Can they do that?

    Let's summarise:

    It looks as though you worked for company 01991234 which, until 27th April 2009, was called J P Moran & Co Ltd. On 27th April that company 01991234 changed its name to Ambassador Holdings Ltd.

    At the same time, 27th April 2009, company 02807151 Ambassador Homes Ltd changed its name to J P Moran & Co Ltd.

    I'm not certain about the legality of that. J P Moran & Co Ltd have effectively slipped away from company 01991234 and started afresh with a clean sheet with company 02807151. If this has been done in an attempt to avoid paying the original company's creditors (bank, suppliers, Inland Revenue etc) then there are heavyweight laws in place to punish directors (wrongful trading, fraudulent trading, and other laws to protect creditors). Anyone else think all this may not be legal?

    So far as you are concerned, as an employee you too would rank as a creditor for any pay, holiday pay, redundancy etc but the good news is that there are "TUPE" rules that mean your employment history is transferred to the "new" company 02807151. Essentially that's because it's substantially the same owners or directors as your "old" employer. If those rules weren't enshrined in employment law, unscupulous employers would be able to transfer staff from one company they owned to another every few months, and thus avoid the redundancy and employment protection legislation.
     
    Posted: May 4, 2009 By: Wild Goose Member since: Aug 15, 2008
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  6. Williams lester

    Williams lester UKBF Newcomer Full Member

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    I have been involved in several name swap situations over the years, where essentially, as you say the company appears to have moved itself, can't see anything which would be illegal in this. But, as you rightly point out the key is the company registration number, this identifies who you are dealing with and a check of the companies house records will reveal trading history etc.
    The key here will be to find out if company A has ceased trading and effectively sold its trade to company B, where there may be some attempt to liquidate one or other of the entities, or if the business has just changed name but continued to trade whilst taking on a new name.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2009
    Posted: May 4, 2009 By: Williams lester Member since: Oct 16, 2008
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  7. Wild Goose

    Wild Goose UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    Hi Dave,

    I think if I were a creditor of J P Moran & Co Ltd I would want to know who I was dealing with when next I supply goods on credit: Am I dealing with company no 123 or company no 456?

    For example, the (hypothetical) £10k that I am owed: do I sue 123 or 456 for payment? The answer is that it depends whether I supplied prior to 27th April - but you'll see the problems a switch like this can course. Creditors believe they are dealing with the same company that they previously supplied, and which already owes them money; whereas in reality they would be dealing with a completely new company disguising itself as the old by adopting its name.

    It makes no sense that Companies House allow a company to switch a name from one company to another this way.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2009
    Posted: May 4, 2009 By: Wild Goose Member since: Aug 15, 2008
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  8. Williams lester

    Williams lester UKBF Newcomer Full Member

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    And who said government departments make sense!! I totally agree with you on this, it looks, from a distance, that the intention is to confuse.
     
    Posted: May 4, 2009 By: Williams lester Member since: Oct 16, 2008
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  9. Wild Goose

    Wild Goose UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    I've never given this sort of name change much thought - clients who start a Phoenix company have always put some distinguishing factor in a name eg J P Moran & Co Ltd would become J P Moran & Co (2009) Ltd.

    I was under the loose impression that once a name had been orphaned it was not re-usable for some specified period of time afterwards. Hence, I assumed, the reason for companies including the differentiating variation "(2009)" in the above example. I really don't know for sure - it just seems instinctively wrong that a company could be allowed to change its name that way. There are rules to prevent far less important strokes as one so fundamental as that.

    Is the Pennsylvania still going?
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2009
    Posted: May 4, 2009 By: Wild Goose Member since: Aug 15, 2008
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  10. Jaydee

    Jaydee UKBF Enthusiast Free Member

    1,042 272
    Not so - I have looked after a number of back-to-back name changes for clients where Company A Limited becomes Company B Limited on the same day that Company B becomes Company A - normally where there is an asset sale rather than a share sale and the purchaser does not take on the vendor's liabilities. The vendor settles their own liabilities and so a number of tax warranties can be avoided and the purchasers due diligence requirement is reduced.

    So it can work OK - it need not imply in the OP's case that something underhand is going on.
     
    Posted: May 4, 2009 By: Jaydee Member since: May 27, 2007
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  11. Williams lester

    Williams lester UKBF Newcomer Full Member

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    Pennsylvania what?
     
    Posted: May 5, 2009 By: Williams lester Member since: Oct 16, 2008
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  12. Wild Goose

    Wild Goose UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    It's the pub near you that I used to frequent. Obviously closed or changed name.
     
    Posted: May 5, 2009 By: Wild Goose Member since: Aug 15, 2008
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  13. Williams lester

    Williams lester UKBF Newcomer Full Member

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    No, pub is still there (now called New Penn).....just caught me off guard as I don't expect anyone to know where I am based..don't advertise it on my website! When did you frequent the pub?
     
    Posted: May 5, 2009 By: Williams lester Member since: Oct 16, 2008
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  14. Wild Goose

    Wild Goose UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    Way back when it was the "old" Penn - I lived in Cardiff some years ago. Nice place, lots of drinking and singing :)

    Sorry if I startled you over address - it's in the public domain. I'll IM you as to where so as to keep it private.
     
    Posted: May 5, 2009 By: Wild Goose Member since: Aug 15, 2008
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  15. Williams lester

    Williams lester UKBF Newcomer Full Member

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    No problem with anyone knowing my address, just didn't think anyone would go to the trouble of finding it....
    Wouldn't go near that pub now unless you are buying illegal substances or fancy a fight!!
     
    Posted: May 5, 2009 By: Williams lester Member since: Oct 16, 2008
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  16. Wild Goose

    Wild Goose UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    Ha ha! Sounds lively. I like illegal substances and fighting - I must remember to stop by there.

    I've IM'd you about where your address is showing.
     
    Posted: May 5, 2009 By: Wild Goose Member since: Aug 15, 2008
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  17. mahutchinson

    mahutchinson UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    Not only can names be used again immediately it is essential that they are in a name swap as the two entities must by definition take each other's name at exactly the same time. Similarly, the minute a company is struck off I can register it as many people do who monitor names at Companies House and snap them up to sell when available.
     
    Posted: May 6, 2009 By: mahutchinson Member since: Mar 17, 2008
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  18. daaat123

    daaat123 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    i worked for a recruitment company that changed their name from JMA Communication to JMA Network and i didnt get a penny in redundancy money
     
    Posted: Jun 18, 2009 By: daaat123 Member since: Jun 18, 2009
    #18
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