Chinese eBay sellers with UK based stock

Discussion in 'Ecommerce Forum' started by Beachbum, Jul 12, 2014.

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  1. moviezone

    moviezone UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    6 2
    Despatching from outside the UK is not as much of a problem (Sales are much lower), the major issue is stock here in the UK (which appears to be UK Sellers but they are not) which is under declared on import and then transferred for fulfilment somewhere in the UK (Be that an international student at Uni, FBA centres or other commercial fulfilment co's.) Not to mention circumvention of CE laws etc.
    .
    If you have an issue from overseas and they have stock in the UK, check them out, buy something and ask for a VAT receipt - If they are trading inside the UK (and the product arrived from inside the UK) and they are over the VAT threshold (Which is often easy to tell just by feedback) then collate the information and report them to R&C.
    Without doubt there is a black hole but if everyone checks their own sector R&C will act on the information, having spoken to them they can now inform Amazon and Ebay of such sellers and they are working with both to remove such accounts or correct them and claim back tax (Which is like a thorn in the side of the sellers) they have to start all over again (Some have very big accounts and are still getting away with VAT input and output and Duty, some just disappear). Back search in Google Address, Fake company ID's and VAT Numbers, this shows other related accounts in other channels - report them all on one go.

    Amazon have stepped up a little ensuring the correct trading address is there for all to see, so you can verified accounts are registered in China/HK but are shipping from FBA UK - and easy spot.

    I can not post links but search "Report VAT Fraud" on google and get cracking it could be worthwhile....
     
    Posted: Sep 3, 2015 By: moviezone Member since: Mar 3, 2012
  2. japancool

    japancool UKBF Big Shot Full Member

    3,404 649
    It's a problem for me, and therefore that's what I care about.
     
    Posted: Sep 3, 2015 By: japancool Member since: Jul 11, 2013
  3. Beachbum

    Beachbum UKBF Contributor Free Member

    68 18
    Posted: Oct 19, 2015 By: Beachbum Member since: Jul 12, 2014
  4. Karimbo

    Karimbo UKBF Ace Free Member

    1,669 163
    nice, panorama produces some very interesting shows. When can we expect to see it aired?

    my general take is that ebay want their site to be the cheapest possible place to buy things online. Over the years they've increased their fees over and over again. If the also enforce VAT compliance it will see their prices balloon and make them uncompetitive against other retailers. It's just not in their interest to enforce VAT compliance, they're doing the absolute bare minimum required by law.

    In fact when you interview an eBay representative on the show, eBay will say "we're doing everything required by law to enforce compliance, we're meeting all HMRC guidelines"
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2015
    Posted: Oct 19, 2015 By: Karimbo Member since: Nov 5, 2011
  5. Beachbum

    Beachbum UKBF Contributor Free Member

    68 18
    Very soon
     
    Posted: Oct 19, 2015 By: Beachbum Member since: Jul 12, 2014
  6. Beachbum

    Beachbum UKBF Contributor Free Member

    68 18
    Oh BTW - I've just got back from Brussels - had meeting the Head of VAT for EU.

    http://www.baypayforum.com/news-fro...t-panelist-bio-conclusion-baypay-sept-16-2014

    Presented him and his team with the facts of what HMRC have let happen in the UK and its effects on every EU members state.

    Went down very well. Meeting lasted 3 hours.

    Now looking at EU to sort this out. EU can hold HMRC to account for this.

    Some very interesting changes to EU VAT Laws coming in - anyone sending goods into EU will have to be registered for VAT from 2020. Bit like VAT Moss but for physical goods.

    Removing the LVCR - low-value consignment relief. Everything will be charged at 20% VAT no matter what value.

    Got a meeting in House of Lords tomorrow too
     
    Posted: Oct 19, 2015 By: Beachbum Member since: Jul 12, 2014
  7. japancool

    japancool UKBF Big Shot Full Member

    3,404 649
    This is not good.

    This is good. Of course, the people posting into the UK will simply carry on underdeclaring the value of goods.
     
    Posted: Oct 21, 2015 By: japancool Member since: Jul 11, 2013
  8. Pish_Pash

    Pish_Pash UKBF Ace Free Member

    2,379 604
    it's a festival of win for the Govt though.....more tax take plus a healthy bit of (instant) inflation to stave off the never ending spectre of deflation :)
     
    Posted: Oct 22, 2015 By: Pish_Pash Member since: Feb 1, 2013
  9. boring-friday

    boring-friday UKBF Enthusiast Free Member

    567 166
    Makes no sense to me how/why hmrc is such a joke. Its not just chinese sellers, loads of uk sellers are doing over the 85k a year or whatever it is with no vat number, I'd say 80% hitting over 85k don't have a vat number atleast, expect out of the ones who do half of them aren't paying anywhere near enough.
    In the US paypal notify the taxman when you hit over $20k in 12 months, you can do 20x that here and not hear a peep, might get asked to submit business information but you can just put self employed and they can't check anything anyway.

    Really don't get the issue, pay someone minimum wage to check for sellers over the threshold, ask if they have a vat number, if not knock on their door, 1 day of work at the most for someone who's dodging £15k+ a year in vat let alone income/cooperation tax aswell
     
    Posted: Oct 22, 2015 By: boring-friday Member since: Jun 5, 2015
  10. RPower

    RPower UKBF Regular Full Member - Verified Business

    355 71
    Hey,

    If this is relevant, a BBC business journalist is looking for UK online traders affected by foreign firms avoiding VAT on sales into the UK.

    If you'd be interested in a radio and/or print interview please get in touch with me and I'll pass your info on.

    Thanks
     
    Posted: Oct 23, 2015 By: RPower Member since: Oct 15, 2012
  11. Karimbo

    Karimbo UKBF Ace Free Member

    1,669 163
    Its correct in theory, but governments are at the mercy of multinational corporations to some extent. They dont want to clamp too hard in the risk of scaring away foreign investors. A few years ago there was a lot of reporting about a multinational coffee chain declaring tiny amount of corp tax by allegedly hiding away their profits using some intra EU loophole.

    Truth is HMRC can clamp down and enforce more rigid accounting standards so profits made from UK revenue are reported as UK profit. But I think HMRC is a bit pragmatic and happy to just take in VAT revenue and turn a blind eye to corp tax dodge

    HMRC would also much prefer to have one VAT regged multinational dominating the market than have lots of independent cafes and patisseries in it's place providing a living for a owner operator. The cafe might never meet the VAT threshold and have no corporation tax anyway because all revenue is spent on wages, overheads and expenses.

    n.b. plus loads of cash businesses tend to not declare a lot of the cash.

    Small indies might also be entitled to small business rate relief and other benefits further reducing the tax revenue collected.
     
    Posted: Oct 26, 2015 By: Karimbo Member since: Nov 5, 2011
  12. Pish_Pash

    Pish_Pash UKBF Ace Free Member

    2,379 604
    This just in...

    "UK losing millions in VAT from non-EU sellers on Amazon and eBay
    Both firms say they have no obligation to police VAT compliance by sellers as Brussels warns of huge rise in goods shipped with value under-declared"

    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/nov/01/uk-losing-millions-vat-non-eu-sellers-amazon-ebay


    ...what's that I hear....aah, it's the sound generated from the collective shrug of their shoulders.

    The Guardian asked for a comment from an HMRC VAT inspector, but...

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2015
    Posted: Nov 1, 2015 By: Pish_Pash Member since: Feb 1, 2013
  13. Pish_Pash

    Pish_Pash UKBF Ace Free Member

    2,379 604
    Posted: Nov 1, 2015 By: Pish_Pash Member since: Feb 1, 2013
  14. Beachbum

    Beachbum UKBF Contributor Free Member

    68 18
    Tune into Radio 4 PM program 5pm today
     
    Posted: Nov 2, 2015 By: Beachbum Member since: Jul 12, 2014
  15. MY OFFICE IN CHINA

    MY OFFICE IN CHINA UKBF Big Shot Full Member

    4,114 827
    98% of sellers (an uneductated guess) who evade VAT and under declare (UK sellers, more so than Chinese sellers) would not know how to find Radio 4.

    Who is it aimed at??
     
    Posted: Nov 2, 2015 By: MY OFFICE IN CHINA Member since: Nov 16, 2011
  16. Beachbum

    Beachbum UKBF Contributor Free Member

    68 18
    Its aimed at raising awareness at government level and adding to pressure

    By all accounts eBay have already had a staff meeting about it today.
     
    Posted: Nov 2, 2015 By: Beachbum Member since: Jul 12, 2014
  17. MY OFFICE IN CHINA

    MY OFFICE IN CHINA UKBF Big Shot Full Member

    4,114 827
    Its been going on for the past 50 years.
     
    Posted: Nov 2, 2015 By: MY OFFICE IN CHINA Member since: Nov 16, 2011
  18. Karimbo

    Karimbo UKBF Ace Free Member

    1,669 163
    removing the vat free value could completely wipe out cheap imports direct from china through websites like aliexpress,deal extreme etc. The VAT/customs handling charge by royal mail would be huge and more than the value of items.

    Also, declaring proper VAT number only solves half of the problem. Foreign based sellers have no loyalty to our country, there's no guarantee that they will actually hand over the VAT to HMRC. They could just burn through lots of VAT numbers, under declare VAT for years and years until they get caught with an inspection, then just pack up and run and set up a new VAT number.

    ive been in business (vat registered) for 2.5 years now. Never had any inspections or a peep from HMRC at all.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2015
    Posted: Nov 2, 2015 By: Karimbo Member since: Nov 5, 2011
  19. Beachbum

    Beachbum UKBF Contributor Free Member

    68 18
    The EU have already proposed new VAT laws for physical goods – just like the VATMOSS Law for downloads.

    VAT will be paid to each member state the goods are sold in. If a Chinese seller distance sells goods into UK, they will have to register for VAT and pay VAT to UK VAT man.

    EU say new laws are pencilled to come into force 2020.

    So we only have 5 years of VAT Fraud left

    i think they are going to introduce a barcode type system - which registers all imports by NON EU sellers. No barcode - no entry

    They are removing LVCR - so everything will have VAT charged it no matter what value
     
    Posted: Nov 2, 2015 By: Beachbum Member since: Jul 12, 2014
  20. Beachbum

    Beachbum UKBF Contributor Free Member

    68 18
    Good to have Lord Lucas backing from House of Lords.

    Classic quote from Lord Lucas twitter account:

    https://twitter.com/LordLucasCD

    “The truth of this is that HMRC is allowing UK businesses to be destroyed, and Amazon+EBay are, as ever, shitpuffins”
     
    Posted: Nov 2, 2015 By: Beachbum Member since: Jul 12, 2014
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