Chinese eBay sellers with UK based stock

Discussion in 'Ecommerce Forum' started by Beachbum, Jul 12, 2014.

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  1. MY OFFICE IN CHINA

    MY OFFICE IN CHINA UKBF Legend Full Member

    5,515 1,291
    Use a 24v saw.

    I can think of many reasons to "stop destroying our great country", however stopping UK consumers being able to buy products as cheaply as possible, would not be on the list.

    If HMRC cannot or will not do anything, it's best to find other ways to make your business succeed.

    Trying to compete with products made in China, that is being sold online by Chinese sellers is very difficult, if impossible, irrespective of how it's done.

    They are always 2 steps ahead.
     
    Posted: Mar 31, 2015 By: MY OFFICE IN CHINA Member since: Nov 16, 2011
  2. Rene Vatz

    Rene Vatz UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    20 3
    What can you do, same market for freelancers or designers, how you can handle competition for 2-4£ ph, or logo for 7£ or web development for 50£? Fight man, fight. Now it's all about labour and cheap prices.
     
    Posted: Mar 31, 2015 By: Rene Vatz Member since: Mar 9, 2015
  3. Pish_Pash

    Pish_Pash UKBF Ace Free Member

    2,426 629
    Ultimately we in the UK are disadvantaged due to the never ending trending up of property prices. I could compete a whole lot more with the onslaught from overseas sellers, if I didn't have to keep a very expensive roof over my family's head, or a vfery expensive roof over the business premises etc.
     
    Posted: Mar 31, 2015 By: Pish_Pash Member since: Feb 1, 2013
  4. beasty

    beasty , Full Member - Verified Business

    2,104 521
    What you do is do not compete on price and pick up a web site for ten grand and not loads for a few hundred quid,

    If you are in price competition with Chinese manufacturers selling on Ebay
    or
    Logo designers in Bangladesh

    You need your head examined
     
    Posted: Mar 31, 2015 By: beasty Member since: Feb 4, 2013
  5. dooyoo

    dooyoo UKBF Contributor Free Member

    68 3
    I am not really in price competition with Chinese manufacturers.

    I am in business to make fair living while looking after my kids and family in general. The only thing is that these Chinese sellers have unfair advantage by breaking UK/EU tax laws.

    Well anyway, I would encourage you people to buy some more expensive stuff from these Chinese sellers and ask to return it within your 14 days, your statutory right . They are very reluctant to take back goods as most of their fulfilment centres do not take goods back or slap them with hefty fee and they loose money on such a transaction.
     
    Posted: Apr 9, 2015 By: dooyoo Member since: Jul 6, 2013
  6. Beachbum

    Beachbum UKBF Contributor Free Member

    68 18
    Just a quick update

    Trading standards submitted a list of 200+ sellers to eBay and asked eBay to get the sellers to update they business details as they were not declaring their identity, address or VAT number in listings, in compliance with Trading Standards laws: regulations 6(1)(g) of the Electronic Commerce (EC Directive) Regulations 2002 and 5(6)(a) and 5(6)(d) of Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008. However eBay said they will not force sellers to declare their VAT number in compliance with Trading Standards laws until HMRC confirms that they are NEPTs. Trading Standards has sent to the list of sellers to the HMRC NEPTs unit.

    However the NEPTs unit have failed to responded.:mad::mad:

    Since then we have compiled a list of 500+ sellers (UK & NEPTS) with sales of £300,000,000 in 2014. Thats £1.2 billion over 3 years and £200,000,000 VAT. Trading Standard will be reporting this list too.

    We are launching our website http://www.vatfraud.org along with a govement epetition after the election - http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/

    Twitter: https://twitter.com/vatfraud
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/vatfraud

    The website lists the 500 sellers and have case studies on them.

    I'll let you know when we launch the petition - we need 100,000 signatures!!!
     
    Posted: May 7, 2015 By: Beachbum Member since: Jul 12, 2014
  7. Herbie_Aftertaste

    Herbie_Aftertaste UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    15 2
    Hi guys. It seems change is afoot! We have been selling on Amazon for nearly ten years. Yesterday, out of nowhere, I was suddenly asked to verify my account. All sorts was asked for including names of business owner, passport numbers, copy of bank statement etc etc. A bit of a hassle but no real problem (thank goodness the passports were handy!). Sounds like things might be tightening up?
     
    Posted: May 12, 2015 By: Herbie_Aftertaste Member since: Jan 21, 2012
  8. Beachbum

    Beachbum UKBF Contributor Free Member

    68 18
    Whatever is happening its great news - passports nice :)

    I think Amazon are a lot more on the ball than eBay on this. Especially when they provide FBA services to illegal VAT evading traders.

    From my own research I've found the big VAT evading Chinese eBay sellers (£1million to £10million per year) have left footprints in Amazon.co.uk but are no longer trading on Amazon

    I think one of the issues for Amazon is that they are getting hammered by Customs & Excise when goods are being sent straight to the FBA warehouses from Chinese Sellers with the sellers putting Amazon on the official customs documents.

    Perhaps they are being left with hefty import bills.

    Company verification is a must - VAT number, VAT Certificate, Company Name, Company Number, company registration certificate, Service Bill, Bank Statement - just whatyou would expect if you walked into a bank and tried open a bank account that £1millions went through...

    About time eBay did the same
     
    Posted: May 12, 2015 By: Beachbum Member since: Jul 12, 2014
  9. Herbie_Aftertaste

    Herbie_Aftertaste UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    15 2
    Anyone else had to give Amazon information?
    Must admit as soon as I was asked my thoughts went back to this thread.
    The questions seemed very thorough (hope I wasn't being scammed!).
    Ie, names of anyone holding 25% shares or more in the company.
    Surely if this is a tightening up of regulations ebay will be sure to follow??
    Also...on a similar theme(ish) did anyone notice that the Australian govt is trying to step up efforts to tax foreign companies. Get the feeling that change might be on the way.....probably take years to sort out mind.
     
    Posted: May 12, 2015 By: Herbie_Aftertaste Member since: Jan 21, 2012
  10. Beachbum

    Beachbum UKBF Contributor Free Member

    68 18
    I don't think this is a case of Amazon trying to protect legitimate businesses.

    More like protecting themselves against hefty import duty bills & government inspections..

    Its obviously starting to hit their bottom line.

    It's definitely not because they fell duty bound.

    But at least its starting to effect them - so something must be having the right effect
     
    Posted: May 12, 2015 By: Beachbum Member since: Jul 12, 2014
  11. TMGG

    TMGG UKBF Regular Free Member

    193 22
    Amazon asked me for all this information months ago. I see competitors even today that do not show a trading address but Amazon told me I had to show mine.
     
    Posted: May 12, 2015 By: TMGG Member since: Jan 6, 2010
  12. Pish_Pash

    Pish_Pash UKBF Ace Free Member

    2,426 629
    I personally don't think any of this information that Amazon are asking for relates to VAT dodging (or anything that is being asked for by HMRC) ...clearly there's some mandate in Brussels that requires Amazon to dot the i's & cross the t's with regards to establishing/confirming seller identities ....but a seller can simply furnish Amazon with the required documents ...... & then still continue to duck VAT!

    it might scare/dissuade a few 'on the side' sellers (where selling is a bit of pocket money)...but I doubt it'll have any impact on those presently making a killing from ducking VAT.
     
    Posted: May 13, 2015 By: Pish_Pash Member since: Feb 1, 2013
  13. Beachbum

    Beachbum UKBF Contributor Free Member

    68 18
    BTW if anyone would like a preview of the petition website www.vatfraud.org please direct message me with your eBay ID and I will send you a password

    It will be interesting to see what you think...
     
    Posted: May 14, 2015 By: Beachbum Member since: Jul 12, 2014
  14. moviezone

    moviezone UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    6 2
    We just completed another test purchase on Amazon (With verified Chinese Amazon sellers - so they have been through the verification) both very large seller both using Amazon FBA warehousing for 95% of their product. Turnover estimate £35K per week per account based on feedback, feedback very good of course since Amazon is fulfilling.

    On arrival we waited 2 days and asked for VAT receipt.

    1st reply :-

    Dear customer,

    Greetings from XXXXXXXXXXX and thank you very much for shopping with us.

    We are glad to serve you. The invoice we could provide for the purchase has been attached for you. We are unable to provide a commercial invoice containning our VAT number currently. Please check it. If there is anything we can do for you, don't hesitate to inform us.

    With best regards,
    xxxxxxxxxxx

    Our reply :-

    Thanks for fast response but there's no VAT or VAT ID on the invoice, the item I purchased was shipped from UK Not hong kong I assume you are Vat registered in the uk when you are shipping from Amazon in the UK.


    2nd Reply :-

    Greetings from XXXXXX and thank you very much for shopping with us.

    Really sorry that we are unable to provide a commercial invoice containning our VAT number currently.

    If you have paid the VAT, could you please tell us that how much have you paid for the VAT? We can issue the refund for this part to you. Are you agree on that?

    We are looking forward to hearing from you.

    With best regards,

    ==========

    So even thought they have not paid the VAT they want rid of me by refunding this element so I go away. Interesting.


    What's more alarming is that this particular seller is a manufacture in china, quite a large one and well known in Shenzhen, my Agent knows their company well. They are 20% cheaper than most sellers selling the same ranges. They have a number of live accounts in eBay also trading so I would estimate at the very least a turnover of £50K per week from UK product. They are importing from China to Jersey and then sending to FBA warehouses. (Personal import) rather than "Company" import - low balling the invoice - to pay lower Duty/VAT on import when received in Jersey, they sending the entire box (packed in China ready for FBA) to Amazon. Completely circumventing Tax and VAT.... Joy..

    When asked C&E said the last time I spoke to an officer personally - they don't have the time and by the time they reach these people the goods have gone, so has the money and generally they move to a new address to take receipt. But one thing for sure, their account in Amazon remains the same it needs to for FBA verification now this can not be changed so easily these days, mutli accounts will be a thing of the past for rouge sellers.


    One of many probably already on the list.
     
    Posted: May 28, 2015 By: moviezone Member since: Mar 3, 2012
  15. UKVATFRAUD

    UKVATFRAUD UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    10 0
    Why not make ebay and Amazon liable for any VAT that is not collected, then see how quickly the VAT fraud problem is solved.
     
    Posted: Jun 4, 2015 By: UKVATFRAUD Member since: Jan 7, 2014
  16. Beachbum

    Beachbum UKBF Contributor Free Member

    68 18
    And make the fulfilment houses liable
     
    Posted: Jun 4, 2015 By: Beachbum Member since: Jul 12, 2014
  17. UKVATFRAUD

    UKVATFRAUD UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    10 0
    Problem with making the fulfillment houses liable is that they are mostly owned by Chinese nationals, and once they get caught they vanish and re open a week later under another name.

    It is not just the VAT man being ripped off but Royal mail are constantly being defrauded of millions of £ by the PPI double ticket system.
     
    Posted: Jun 5, 2015 By: UKVATFRAUD Member since: Jan 7, 2014
  18. Beachbum

    Beachbum UKBF Contributor Free Member

    68 18
    I think its a combination of things; enforcing existing laws and putting in place a few new laws. But the major factor here is HMRC.

    They need to pull their fingers out of their a**es & stop this fraud. Its not exactly rocket science to detect. They have the powers and tools to do it. They should start using them

    They need to proactive rather than inactive.

    They are the only people who can save the UK economy £billions

    HMRC - bunch of muppets
     
    Posted: Jun 5, 2015 By: Beachbum Member since: Jul 12, 2014
  19. Beachbum

    Beachbum UKBF Contributor Free Member

    68 18
    Posted: Jun 5, 2015 By: Beachbum Member since: Jul 12, 2014
  20. UKVATFRAUD

    UKVATFRAUD UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    10 0
    Great web page, let us hope it goes viral so that the British public can understand what is going on, as the majority of UK consumers do not get it or understand it . Yet it affects all of us with public services being cut to the bone and a few Billion back in the hands of HMRC might reduce such cuts.
     
    Posted: Jun 5, 2015 By: UKVATFRAUD Member since: Jan 7, 2014
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