Can you sack someone without notice in the first 2 weeks

Status
Not open for further replies.

dev99

Free Member
Oct 4, 2006
168
15
Midlands
HI

Employee in question only started work 2 weeks ago and in the 2 weeks most of the time he has spent either looking for another job, or browsing various social media sites FB etc.

The business is a call centre enviroment and he knew that all calls and visited sites are monitored

He has also lied about his employment history and thus we have not been able to get any references for him

Can this be grounds for instant dismissal.


.
 
The grounds for instant dismissal would be laid out normally in your staff handbook as gross misconduct matters. Notice periods, even where the employee has been employed under a month still has to be reasonable.

I would abbreviate this as much as possible by a short disciplinary ending in dismissal but allowing an appeal. Suggest you have a clear policy on gross misconduct to apply to all employees which lays out the rules and include notice periods in your future contracts also.

You don't need to lay out loads of reasons but it saves time, you do have to be reasonable. Your employees may need 2 years service for employment law rights but from day one they have contractual rights which tend to be forgotten in some advice.
 
Upvote 0
Yeah, I thought you still had to demonstrate it was fair. The documents @LawHound mentioned will usually define this as a gross misconduct resulting in summary dismissal, without which the employee can claim they didn't know the rules, as so defining 'fair' is more difficult.
 
Upvote 0
Do you have to be fair? Is it not safer to just dismiss without reason?

IMHO the reason needs to be covered by the terms of employment, the terms of employment need to be fair to be valid, it is only fair to tell somebody the reason they are being fired verbally, you may indeed want to be very careful about how descriptive you are about your reasoning in the official letter, "for breaching terms of employment" type response may be best.
 
Upvote 0
This is a business my nephew has just started and this guy was the first employee. He was warned in his first week about spending too much time on Social media. He just can't afford to pay someone to come and sit around.

So yes (as @Scalloway originally said) but he'd best advised to cover his arse in the future by getting some proper terms in place. It sounds like a pain but there's plenty of templates and lifes a lot easier with than without.
 
Upvote 0

dev99

Free Member
Oct 4, 2006
168
15
Midlands
So yes (as @Scalloway originally said) but he'd best advised to cover his arse in the future by getting some proper terms in place. It sounds like a pain but there's plenty of templates and lifes a lot easier with than without.

Appreciate all the comments and advise thus far.

In fact he has just finished a final draft of contract and was going to give it to him this weeks.
 
Upvote 0
Hi Dev,

In answer to the thread title, no, not exactly.


As Scalloway suggested, you can dismiss within the first two years, normally with impunity & without reason (there are exceptions to this). This applies to the legal protection of "unfair dismissal" though.

To dismiss without notice wouldn't fall within, or give any protection of unfair dismissal, but it would still be "wrongful dismissal" - a contractual claim. Statute law states that after a month's employment, an employee should receive "not less than one week’s notice", but is silent on what notice to provide for less service - two weeks in this case. Case law says that notice should be "reasonable", and it's impossible to define this in any given case without looking at the details of the employment, but as a general rule for simple employment terms - a case like this, where neither party even felt the need to confirm the terms in advance - I typically recommend a day or so for each week of employment: three day's paid notice in this case; I base this rough calculation on the fact parliament only provides a week after one month, so clearly didn't intend it to normally be so much for a shorter period; and the terms weren't agreed in advance, so no inference it should be longer.


If this paid notice wasn't provided, damages would be possible to be claimed for the "reasonable" notice (as wrongful dismissal), but it's arguable that this is unlikely to be claimed, due to the minimal value/cost ratio, so while you can't dismiss without any notice, you could get away with it - or settle quickly if a claim was brought.


(Apologies an early draft of this was posted: the wonderful forum software does that these days, without even previewing or confirming. Confusing.)


Karl Limpert
 
Upvote 0
Apologies to @LawHound, I hadn't noticed that they had mentioned the "reasonable" notice requirement earlier in this thread.

Personally, I wouldn't bother with the formalities of a disciplinary - there isn't even a contract on how this would be done, so should it be wrapped up in a day, or take a week to allow a companion to be available, and then an appeal? - I would just dismiss with the "reasonable" notice that's required by law.

The case isn't one of gross misconduct though, so instant dismissal isn't an option (and it isn't an option for any gross misconduct case until an allegation has been reasonably considered, and decided upon anyway, or the same principals of wrongful dismissal apply).


Karl Limpert
 
Upvote 0

cjd

Business Member
Business Listing
Nov 23, 2005
15,611
3,149
www.voipfone.co.uk
Pragmatically, tell him to go home, he's been fired because it doesn't seem like it's working out. Pay him what he's owed for the days he's worked so far and a week's pay in lieu of notice (or 3 days, like Karl says, if you're feeling mean).

You don't need to do anything more complicated than that.

But before hiring anyone else get a template contract drawn up - they don't cost much and they save a lot of hassle.
 
Upvote 0

HazelC

Free Member
Sep 7, 2013
1,171
227
Cambridgeshire
Pragmatically, tell him to go home, he's been fired because it doesn't seem like it's working out. Pay him what he's owed for the days he's worked so far and a week's pay in lieu of notice (or 3 days, like Karl says, if you're feeling mean).

You don't need to do anything more complicated than that.

But before hiring anyone else get a template contract drawn up - they don't cost much and they save a lot of hassle.

And (hindsight being a wonderful thing), try and get the employment history and references sorted before the person starts work. - Sorry, I know that doesn't help now :s
 
Upvote 0

dev99

Free Member
Oct 4, 2006
168
15
Midlands
Thank you for all the comments.

It just so painful to pay someone who clearly had no intentions of doing any work.
My nephew is thinking of just paying him time worked and a couple of days for notice.
In the 2 weeks the employee in question attended work, he probably worked about a day.
 
Upvote 0
Carl,

I would have though Lieing on his CV about Employment history would be Gross Misconduct, though the Facebook stuff wouldn't

I would expect the CV would be a misrepresentation, which could be considered fundamental, so would be breach of contract or fraud by misrepresentation. The use of computers to access or use non-approved services, can be a gross misconduct offence if you define it so, or you could treat it as a performance/disciplinary problem if they are doing that rather than their defined role.
 
Upvote 0
A phone call to ACAS would put you mind to rest but this would be within a probationary period so effectively you can say it's not working out and goodbye. You did have an employment contract drawn up, didn't you?

One thing it does show is that employers have to increasingly make a judgement on employment based upon a CV and paper qualifications alone. You cannot ask searching questions on their previous employment or health that would affect your decision. Do potential employees cover up on this information and refrain from supplying pertinent details? The answer is often, especially on health. And references are a total waste of time.
 
Upvote 0

The Byre

Legacy Full Member
Aug 13, 2013
11,835
5,127
Why do some people make a three-act play out of simple things like this?

Gross misrepresentation of career to-date is grounds for dismissal.

Not working on day one - letter of reprimand. Not working on day two, second letter of reprimand. Day three - there's the door!
 
  • Like
Reactions: nelioneil
Upvote 0

Maxwell83

Free Member
Aug 4, 2012
755
208
The Byre has hit the nail on the head here - I'm reading this thinking "Bloody hell, why the palava? the guy is a waster. Show him the door and if he's got a problem, tell him you'll see him court".

That's not legal advice by the way, that's real world advice. I would bet 3 x his daily rate that you won't hear from him again, regardless of the correct legal position.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.

Subscribe to our newsletters

ukbf logo
ukbf logo

Real community whatever your business.
Sign up to our full membership View Documentation

About us

  • Our community has been around for many years and pride ourselves on offering unbiased, critical discussion among people of all different backgrounds. We are working every day to make sure our community is one of the best.

Quick Navigation

User Menu