Can anyone actually explain the temp to temp fee legislation

Discussion in 'Employment & HR' started by Beetle50, Sep 11, 2019.

  1. Beetle50

    Beetle50 UKBF Contributor Free Member

    33 0
    Hi guys

    I’ve been working through an agency for a company for over 16 weeks. Neither myself or the company are happy with the agency as I am doing a lot more work and they refuse to up my wages as without charging the company which the company won’t do as they are aware of the markup the agency is making (125% per hour inc VAT)

    Anyhow, there has been discussion and agreement for them to employ me through my ltd company. Is the agency entitled to pursue a temp to temp fee? If so, how, and who would they pursue, myself or the company?

    The temp to temp fee seems to be very hazy and all the info online is just direct quote from the legislation. Can anyone explain it a bit more clearly as I don’t want to get bit or cause a mess. In all honesty I’m thinking about walking just to avoid this all.

    Thanks guys
     
    Posted: Sep 11, 2019 By: Beetle50 Member since: Aug 14, 2019
    #1
  2. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

    12,464 3,236
    Not you again. Read your contract and tell the end client to do the same. If you're worried go to a lawyer.
     
    Posted: Sep 11, 2019 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #2
  3. Beetle50

    Beetle50 UKBF Contributor Free Member

    33 0
    You never give an answer, you just make comments eluding that you know what you're writing about but you clearly don’t. Honestly please stay off my posts if you don’t know, it’s super annoying and not helpful to me or anyone else in a similar position
     
    Posted: Sep 11, 2019 By: Beetle50 Member since: Aug 14, 2019
    #3
  4. Lucan Unlordly

    Lucan Unlordly UKBF Ace Free Member

    1,370 252
    What exactly do you want to achieve?

    You applied to the agency for a job, you got the job, you get paid.

    If you or your employer don't like the contract, you part ways and find something else, not keep on looking for loopholes.

    I'm not going to trawl through all your other posts but i'm sure you will already have been told to look at the contract you and your employer have with the agency.
     
    Posted: Sep 11, 2019 By: Lucan Unlordly Member since: Feb 24, 2009
    #4
  5. Beetle50

    Beetle50 UKBF Contributor Free Member

    33 0
    Why not?
     
    Posted: Sep 11, 2019 By: Beetle50 Member since: Aug 14, 2019
    #5
  6. Lucan Unlordly

    Lucan Unlordly UKBF Ace Free Member

    1,370 252
    Because you signed a contract, supplied in good faith for a job you were happy to take with an employer who was happy to employ you.
    Your just trying to make a few more $$$$ which is fine. Your employer is trying to avoid his financial responsibilities.

    PS: If you recall, he also wants you to go self employed to save paying you holiday and sickness money.
     
    Posted: Sep 12, 2019 By: Lucan Unlordly Member since: Feb 24, 2009
    #6
  7. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

    16,195 1,804
    Understandably the agency only want to increase your wages if they can get more money for your time.
    You were fine with the wage when they took you on. The company was fine paying that fee per hour for the services of a temp.

    Company takes your company on now then the contract between them and temp agency applies.
    Or not.
    It is nothing to do with you. Let the two of them sort it out. You do not pay unless you have signed something to say you will pay - presumably you have not signed anything like that as normally it's employer.
    And temp agency has no contract with your new employer, your company?

    Your company will of course be charging the employing company a suitable rate for services that is considerably higher than an employee would cost them.
     
    Posted: Sep 12, 2019 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
    #7
  8. NicoJ

    NicoJ UKBF Regular Free Member

    115 15
    I've just been reading through your posts and with all due respect:

    1 you have misunderstood the awr legislation. What you think you should get is not a legal reality. You are not an employee, nothing really changes after 12 weeks.

    2 the agency will be entitled to charge a fee, how much depends on the contract between them and the company you work for. They could potentially sue you in addition for breach of contract if you do this without their knowledge

    3 the company you work for is not as good as you seem to think. If they were genuine they would employ you, not contract you through a ltd company. This absolves them of significant responsibilities and is potentially detrimental to you (more so when the ir35 legislation comes in - april 2020)

    4 you will not get the answers that you want because of the above 3 points, although it looks like you already went down the ltd route so potentially are going to do what you've been advised against anyway.

    Good luck.
     
    Posted: Sep 12, 2019 By: NicoJ Member since: Mar 27, 2017
    #8
  9. Beetle50

    Beetle50 UKBF Contributor Free Member

    33 0
    Whilst I appreciate the replies I’m astounded as to how regular posters in this forum really have no answer to the question.

    Unless you can answer the original question, I really see no point in replying to it. There are many details I have not posted, I asked a question. Rather than tell me what I should, shouldn’t do can anyone actually answer the original question? I
     
    Posted: Sep 12, 2019 By: Beetle50 Member since: Aug 14, 2019
    #9
  10. NicoJ

    NicoJ UKBF Regular Free Member

    115 15
    The question in this post is - can an agency charge a temp to perm fee. The answer is yes they can. A "hostile" fee can be a ridiculous amount, a kind of punishment from the recruitment agency

    The question in your other post relates to AWR - this gives you the same rights as a permanent worker. This is primarily designed to stop companies exploiting agency workers. It does not mean you are an employee or are entitled to be paid by the agency without working. As I said, you misunderstood the legislation.

    All of your questions have been answered, you just don't like (or perhaps you don't understand) the answers.
     
    Posted: Sep 12, 2019 By: NicoJ Member since: Mar 27, 2017
    #10
  11. Beetle50

    Beetle50 UKBF Contributor Free Member

    33 0
    Nope

    That was not the question

    I honestly give up.
     
    Posted: Sep 12, 2019 By: Beetle50 Member since: Aug 14, 2019
    #11
  12. NicoJ

    NicoJ UKBF Regular Free Member

    115 15
    Well, whether it was your intention they were the questions that you asked.

    Perhaps you should re-read your questions? The answers and advice given are still valid and I would urge you to read and digest them properly (maybe show them to someone else & discuss them). The individuals on here really are trying to help you.
     
    Posted: Sep 12, 2019 By: NicoJ Member since: Mar 27, 2017
    #12
  13. Chris Ashdown

    Chris Ashdown UKBF Legend Free Member

    10,544 2,132
    What is the job you do at the company and what does it entail. The reason I ask is that some jobs will be rated by HMRC as employee jobs, Would you be also working for other companies as a freelancer or just this one
     
    Posted: Sep 12, 2019 By: Chris Ashdown Member since: Dec 7, 2003
    #13
  14. billmccallum1957

    billmccallum1957 UKBF Ace Full Member

    1,974 418
    This was your question " Is the agency entitled to pursue a temp to temp fee?"

    The reality is nobody can answer, they have not seen your contract with the agency or that between the employer and the agency.

    Why not try a solicitor?
     
    Posted: Sep 12, 2019 By: billmccallum1957 Member since: Feb 11, 2016
    #14
  15. Lucan Unlordly

    Lucan Unlordly UKBF Ace Free Member

    1,370 252
    You've had the answer...............

    You asked:
    To which Cyndy replied:
    READ THE CONTRACT!
    If your contract says 'If you are employed in any way, either directly or through the formation of a Ltd Company, we reserve the right to sue your backside off for fees due' then you have your answer.
    READ THE CONTRACT!
    If your contract says: 'We really don't care if you want to shaft us by trying to avoid fees due', then again you have your answer.
    READ THE CONTRACT!
     
    Posted: Sep 12, 2019 By: Lucan Unlordly Member since: Feb 24, 2009
    #15
  16. NickGrogan

    NickGrogan UKBF Ace Free Member

    2,016 447
    Yes, definitely.

    They will send the company an invoice and pursue through the courts. They will blacklist you and you take you on as a temp in the future for any roles.

    Your employer will take you on (through your limited co to avoid taxes).
    They'll get a big bill from the recruitment company.
    Your employer will realise their mistake and tell you that you are no longer required (You have no protection as you are a limited company).
    Your employer will hire another temp to replace you.
    The recruitment company will drop you.
     
    Posted: Sep 12, 2019 By: NickGrogan Member since: Nov 15, 2012
    #16
  17. pentel

    pentel UKBF Regular Free Member

    418 67
    Do you mean temp to perm?

    We agree a no cost temp to perm after 12 weeks with the agencies we use. It seems the company your are working at may not have agreed this at the outset.

    When someone goes temp to perm they become employed under the terms they agree with the employing company, whatever they may be. If this happens please read the terms

    If the employing company won't employ you directly then staying as a temp is probably as good as it gets as they are not committed to you in any way.

    May be time to look for a new position.
     
    Posted: Sep 12, 2019 By: pentel Member since: Mar 12, 2011
    #17
  18. Beetle50

    Beetle50 UKBF Contributor Free Member

    33 0
    Actually spoke to quite a few sources today; recruitment agent, acas, and interestingly HR.

    Nope wrong again. Please read the question.
     
    Posted: Sep 12, 2019 By: Beetle50 Member since: Aug 14, 2019
    #18
  19. UKSBD

    UKSBD Not a real duck Staff Member

    9,244 1,731
    Have you, (or the company you are working for) negotiated with the agency to see how much they will charge to release you from the contract?
     
    Posted: Sep 12, 2019 By: UKSBD Member since: Dec 30, 2005
    #19
  20. ecommerce84

    ecommerce84 UKBF Regular Free Member

    553 164
    Do you mean the answer to the subject of the thread: ‘can anyone actually explain the temp to temp fee legislation’?

    Assuming you actually mean temp to perm, then the answer can be found here: https://www.gov.uk/employment-agencies-and-businesses/fees-to-hiring-companies-transfer-fees

    It’s in the first paragraph:

    “If you run an employment business you can sometimes charge a transfer fee (called a ‘temp-to-perm’ fee) to hirers if they give a permanent job to a worker you’ve provided.

    You must include all transfer fees and conditions in your contract with the hirer.”

    So the answer is.............

    Legislation allows a charge to be made but it’s all dependent on your contracts.

    Which is what @Newchodge said yesterday morning in the 2nd post!
     
    Posted: Sep 12, 2019 By: ecommerce84 Member since: Feb 24, 2007
    #20