Brexit negotiations

Discussion in 'Time Out' started by Scott-Copywriter, Jun 19, 2017.

  1. KM-Tiger

    KM-Tiger UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    Parliament taking back control is fine, as they almost certainly will later today and put an end to May's treachery, and hopefully her as well if the margin is big enough.

    Is it too much for a voter like me to expect that parliament will enact the result of a referendum? And fulfil the manifesto pledges made by the parties of 90% of MPs?
     
    Posted: Jan 15, 2019 By: KM-Tiger Member since: Aug 10, 2003
  2. atmosbob

    atmosbob UKBF Ace Free Member

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    Yes!

    1/ The Referendum was advisory. Cameron promised a debate on the result, that's all. May and Leadsom have stifled a proper debate right from day one. MPs are rightly furious that they have had to wait to the eleventh hour before being allowed to make a meaningful decision. May should have let them have a free vote before invoking Art 50.

    2/ The referendum was illegal. The leave side have been found guilty of overspending and breaking many other rules. May has stifled a proper investigation by the police into the legality of the result.

    3/ Many MPs do not want to wreck the country for the sake of a few right wing money speculators like Mogg, Farage, Redwood et al but are aware that the country is too bloody stupid to understand the real reasons a bunch of billionaires and millionaires support getting away from the EU.
     
    Posted: Jan 15, 2019 By: atmosbob Member since: Oct 26, 2009
  3. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

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    So you would accept us leaving if MPs had a vote before invoking art 50?

    But then you think the country is stupid for voting the way they did. You really do not like this democratic process we have.
     
    Posted: Jan 15, 2019 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
  4. The Byre

    The Byre UKBF Ace Free Member

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    You were not asked to vote to leave, you were asked to vote to stay in.

    The UK can no more leave Europe than you can regain your virginity. The object of this giant and pointless exercise was to lance the boil within the Conservative Party. It was never intended as an exercise in democracy.

    Hey! When does this pointless and circular thread reach 250 pages and is that a record of some sort?
     
    Posted: Jan 15, 2019 By: The Byre Member since: Aug 13, 2013
  5. KM-Tiger

    KM-Tiger UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    Correct. 10/10 for geography.

    It's not Europe that we want to leave ....
     
    Posted: Jan 15, 2019 By: KM-Tiger Member since: Aug 10, 2003
  6. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

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    I was asked to vote picking one of two options.

    Which referendum did you do?

    And almost half the population can regain virginity - https://abcnews.go.com/2020/WomensHealth/story?id=123701&page=1
     
    Posted: Jan 15, 2019 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
  7. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

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    It wasn't Europe that we had the ballot on either. Much to the surprise of some people who apparently voted anyway. They have the vote... and they don't read. :)

    Seriously we will always be that little group of islands off the coast of Europe until someone removes the sea or we drift elsewhere.
     
    Posted: Jan 15, 2019 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
  8. KM-Tiger

    KM-Tiger UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    I think you were given the wrong ballot paper. Should have been this one:
    [​IMG]
     
    Posted: Jan 15, 2019 By: KM-Tiger Member since: Aug 10, 2003
  9. Scott-Copywriter

    Scott-Copywriter UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    Rees-Mogg's masterplan in the event of the deal being rejected today involves this approach to the EU:

    Note how every arch-Brexiteer conveniently dodges the issue of the Irish border. A free trade agreement like this would immediately result in a hard border having to return. But this is the chap who suggested that there would be no issue with some checks returning as we did "during the Troubles".

    I have yet to see a single person, in any walk of life, who has been able to form a hard Brexit plan that solves the Irish border issue. And you can tell how difficult that is to do as most prefer to just avoid talking about it.
     
    Posted: Jan 15, 2019 By: Scott-Copywriter Member since: May 10, 2006
  10. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    To be honest I find it hard to see how ANY Brexit plan, hard or soft, would not require regulatory checks either between N Ireland and the EU or N Ireland and the UK. If the UK wants the right to change its regulations, either in order to trade with other countries or for any other reason, the EU must control its borders so that sub EU-standard goods don't wander across the border. Why is that so hard to understand?
     
    Posted: Jan 15, 2019 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
  11. KM-Tiger

    KM-Tiger UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    It's easy to understand as it's equally true the other way around. If we raise our standards we won't want substandard EU goods wandering across the border either.

    But we have said, ROI have said, and the EU have said that there will not be a hard border. And head of HMRC and ROI equivalent have said that existing mechanisms can be used to deal with checks and/or tariffs. So no need for a wall, checkpoints, searchlight towers, machine gun nests or dog patrols.

    Why don't we just leave it to the experts to sort the details?
     
    Posted: Jan 15, 2019 By: KM-Tiger Member since: Aug 10, 2003
  12. Scott-Copywriter

    Scott-Copywriter UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    There is absolutely a need for some border infrastructure and spot checks. Every customs border on earth has them. If it was possible to avoid them, it would have been done already.

    This is why, after two years of negotiations, the withdrawal agreement has amounted to kicking the can down the road with a legal backup in place.

    As humans we have a tendency to think that time solves everything. That if we just think long enough then a solution will eventually appear. But that's not always the case. Far from it.

    There are certainly solutions out there, but they involve a level of integration with the EU that some aren't prepared to accept. I'm sure many would reject that notion, but the Irish border situation is truly unique in the world, and with that comes very unique challenges with no guarantee that a solution is actually out there.
     
    Posted: Jan 15, 2019 By: Scott-Copywriter Member since: May 10, 2006
  13. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    Because they lie.

    No they haven't. The ERG has claimed that, but if it were that simple it would be in the agreement, which it is not.
     
    Posted: Jan 15, 2019 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
  14. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

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    Leave it to the experts?

    Trouble is the MPs don't want to listen and some of the people want their idea imposed instead, despite problems or the fact that other people don't want that solution.
     
    Posted: Jan 15, 2019 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
  15. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

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    Simplicity and getting two sides to agree on a solution are not the same thing.
     
    Posted: Jan 15, 2019 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
  16. KM-Tiger

    KM-Tiger UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    But willingness and a can-do attitude from all sides could solve this. We are not at war with the EU, let's cooperate with each other and solve this.

    We need to see it as an issue to be resolved, not as a reason why we cannot possibly leave the EU.
     
    Posted: Jan 15, 2019 By: KM-Tiger Member since: Aug 10, 2003
  17. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

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    Prime Minister Theresa May's Brexit deal has been rejected by 230 votes - the largest defeat for a sitting government in history.

    MPs voted by 432 votes to 202 to reject the deal, which sets out the terms of Britain's exit from the EU on 29 March.

    Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has now tabled a vote of no confidence in the government, which could trigger a general election.

    The confidence vote will be held at 1900 GMT on Wednesday.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46885828
     
    Posted: Jan 15, 2019 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
  18. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

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    Oh well, stuck with the no deal Brexit currently then.

    How are people's flying skills for 2 and a half months time? For going over the cliff.
     
    Posted: Jan 15, 2019 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
  19. simon field

    simon field UKBF Big Shot Full Member - Verified Business

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    Right, that's it! I'm gonna start stockpiling Bratwurst & French Fancies tomoz.
     
    Posted: Jan 15, 2019 By: simon field Member since: Feb 4, 2011
  20. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

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    Thanks, made me smile.
     
    Posted: Jan 15, 2019 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017