Brexit & Amazon FBA - heads up

Discussion in 'Ecommerce Forum' started by Pish_Pash, Aug 26, 2020.

  1. Darren_Ssc

    Darren_Ssc UKBF Ace Free Member

    1,276 395
    By that logic Argentina would also be a great place to live.
     
    Posted: Aug 28, 2020 By: Darren_Ssc Member since: Mar 1, 2019
    #21
  2. The Byre

    The Byre UKBF Legend Full Member

    10,256 4,252
    Most people like to be within their own culture. Germans prefer Germany. Czechs end up going back to Czechia - and so on.

    I am in the happy position of being able to choose where to live, but like all people, language restraints mean that I can only choose English-, German- or French-speaking places.

    The mistake people make when choosing a country to live in, is to not realise that one part is not the same as another. The Highlands of Scotland is a different country to SE England or Birmingham. Berlin is vastly different to the sleepy hills of Rheinland Pfalz or the foothills of the Alps. If you love 'crazy' Berlin is the place for you. If you love law-and-order above all other things, try one of the more conservative villages in Baden-Württemberg.

    As for peace and quiet and a part of the world where nothing happens - nothing beats the Highlands of Scotland. The Highland News actually had the headline 'Lassie falls from Bicycle' a few years back!

    Being poor in the UK is to live in a state of constant desperation. Whilst those tasked with helping you are trying to muddle through, you are living in squaller with not enough to eat.

    Being poor in Germany means that you have access to all kinds of support systems and a brilliant health system with no waiting lists. You will get a decent, clean and healthy place to live. Being rich in Germany still does not mean you can build a castle in the woods or own the local forests. In the UK, you can own an entire island or even a village and nobody tries to stop you.
     
    Posted: Aug 28, 2020 By: The Byre Member since: Aug 13, 2013
    #22
  3. Clinton

    Clinton UKBF Legend Full Member

    5,015 2,180
    That rules out Essex then.
     
    Posted: Aug 28, 2020 By: Clinton Member since: Jan 17, 2010
    #23
  4. simon field

    simon field UKBF Big Shot Full Member - Verified Business

    4,788 1,754
    And anywhere north of Diss.
     
    Posted: Aug 28, 2020 By: simon field Member since: Feb 4, 2011
    #24
  5. samuel5

    samuel5 UKBF Regular Full Member

    273 19
    Just come back to this thread but lots of waffle nothing to do with selling on Amazon!
     
    Posted: Aug 28, 2020 By: samuel5 Member since: Apr 25, 2010
    #25
  6. Darren_Ssc

    Darren_Ssc UKBF Ace Free Member

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    The original thread was a heads-up about something that was common knowledge in July.

    Feel free to post your input on the subject...
     
    Posted: Aug 29, 2020 By: Darren_Ssc Member since: Mar 1, 2019
    #26
  7. JEREMY HAWKE

    JEREMY HAWKE UKBF Legend Full Member

    5,172 1,766
    I say its tough luck for those of us that did not vote for this well you just cant win everyday

    For those of you that voted to make yourself without actually knowing these facts at the time
    well ha ha ha ha ha :):):):)
     
    Posted: Aug 29, 2020 By: JEREMY HAWKE Member since: Mar 4, 2008
    #27
  8. Pish_Pash

    Pish_Pash UKBF Ace Free Member

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    I've sold on Amazon for 8yrs...I guess I've grown to the extent have a decent amount of turnover to warrant someone from Amazon actually phoning me to talk about the impact.....the news may have been released in July but (IMHO) it wasn't 'common knowledge' hence creating the thread... to those that didn't know, you're welcome. To those that did "nothing to see here..."

    It seems emotions are still running high ....that word Brexit clearly still gets veins throbbing in necks - my opening post wasn't about the pros or cons of Brexit...just a simple heads up to those who use Amazon FBA & sell into Europe.
     
    Posted: Aug 29, 2020 By: Pish_Pash Member since: Feb 1, 2013
    #28
  9. lesliedocherty

    lesliedocherty UKBF Ace Free Member

    2,258 312
    I agree, how can a simple heads up thread get thrown off.

    I appreciated it a i spoke to my Amazon guy the same day and he was pushing me to go down the FBA route, his main selling point was if i am FBA i get Prime in Europe as well, i'll speak to him next week.
     
    Posted: Aug 29, 2020 By: lesliedocherty Member since: Jun 17, 2006
    #29
  10. Pish_Pash

    Pish_Pash UKBF Ace Free Member

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    To get Prime in Europe, you'd have to sign up to something called FBA 'Pan European' ...that means 7 x VAT registrations (which if you include the UK, you'd then be on the hook for 8 x VAT submissions per month or quarter ...not something to be taken on lightly)...if you raise concerns about the VAT burden, he'll then push you a third party VAT service (i.e. get a 12~18 Month teaser rate using a VAT admin service company like Avalara), but in my opinion even with their help, the associated VAT it's a big admin task....perhaps doable if you have an accounts team & suitable accounts software...but for a 1 or 2 man operation....you'd be pushing the envelope & entering VAT hell. Just think about it...a VAT registered Belgium customer purchases from Amazon.de ...he asks that you remove the VAT because he has a VAT number (he asks you in French), he takes delivery of his order, decides he doesn't like it & returns it ( that all has to end up on German VAT return)....multiply that by multiple similar customer & for 7 countries...I want to curl up into the foetal position & have a well built nurse mop my sweating brow.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2020
    Posted: Aug 29, 2020 By: Pish_Pash Member since: Feb 1, 2013
    #30
  11. Darren_Ssc

    Darren_Ssc UKBF Ace Free Member

    1,276 395
     
    Posted: Aug 29, 2020 By: Darren_Ssc Member since: Mar 1, 2019
    #31
  12. samuel5

    samuel5 UKBF Regular Full Member

    273 19
    If you sign up to Amazon VAT services Amazon will calculate the correct VAT for the order based on where the item is shipping from and what the delivery address is.

    So you would never have customers asking to have the VAT refunded.

    We are on Pan EU FBA and are VAT registered in all 8 countries, now also had to register in Ireland and Austria as we have exceeded the thresholds.
    Since Amazon calculates the VAT at the point of sale all the orders are pulled into our system with the correct VAT amount.
    Our software then just needs to look up a table to work out what tax code to apply, for example UK is T1, Germany is T3, business customers with no VAT are T4 etc
     
    Posted: Aug 30, 2020 By: samuel5 Member since: Apr 25, 2010
    #32
  13. Clinton

    Clinton UKBF Legend Full Member

    5,015 2,180
    Then grow the business till it's got the staff to deal with the admin.

    Neither Amazon nor the rest of the world needs to arrange their affairs so it's convenient for the micro businesses / WFH jobbers.

    I've always advised people to avoid playing the Amazon game. If you want to start a business, go build your castle on your own land, not Amazon's. But if you do tango with them, be prepared to suck up whatever they throw at you. The nature of the beast is to prefer scalable, large, automated. Get in that headspace or get out.

    They are not about making life convenient for the little guy.
     
    Posted: Aug 30, 2020 By: Clinton Member since: Jan 17, 2010
    #33
  14. The Byre

    The Byre UKBF Legend Full Member

    10,256 4,252
    This is golden advice for all UK SME businesses.

    SMEs seldom realise what life is like at the rockface for larger companies. Dealing with hand-operated, hand-cranked, inefficient suppliers or customers is a screaming, hemorrhoidal PITA. They may be cheaper, they may even be better, but if processing an order (going in or out) costs £X and the gross profit on their order is £X/2, you cannot afford to deal with them. And if you are a junior buyer and you try to help the little guy, you can end up having 'that' discussion with the head of purchasing about your profitability levels.

    This applies to every branch of industry, from gaming to movies, from music to fitted kitchens, from electric motor-housings to the bearings that go into those motors.
     
    Posted: Aug 30, 2020 By: The Byre Member since: Aug 13, 2013
    #34
  15. Pish_Pash

    Pish_Pash UKBF Ace Free Member

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    You keep barging into my threads with over-bearing input....FFS I wasn't whining....once again, my thread was just to give a heads up & to discuss plausible options given potential for the UK/EU not agreeing by Dec 31st 2020.

    It''s like that old gag about old biddy grabbed by the arm & safely guided across a busy road by a well meaning young man....they arrive at the other side & she grunts at him"but I didn't want to even cross the road!".

    Exactly.

    Sure, I could take on staff & grow (you make it sound like I'd not considered that!! "Woah, thank heavens Clinton rocked up....I'd never pondered that!") ..... it's not all about growth., For me it's about how far can I push the envelope *without* employing staff. (for someone that seemingly brokers massive deals, why do you frequent a board that comprises mainly Mom & Pop (1 or 2 man) operations?!)

    I don't really want to take on staff - staff are grief, they want time off, pensions...they throw sickies, they cause HR challenges, I'd have to be up on employment legislation, pension legislation, health & safety legislation etc ...I'd have to make my dining room table covid secure...nope, not for me.

    I'm quite happy to use virtual employees (Amazon warehouse workers, Amazon Customer support staff).

    I signed up to the Amazon auto creation scheme...I still get customers asking about invoices ...it follows that just because Amazon are auto-calculating the VAT, that I'll still get all manner of VAT messages (if in doubt, a customer always rattles off a message!). For example what happens if an EU customer buys on the main Amazon B2C site (vs their dedicated B2B site), he'll then be charged VAT...he'll probably realise that once he gets his invoice...he'll then try to get you to refund it (happens now, it'll happen then).

    incidentally which accounts software are you using?
     
    Posted: Aug 30, 2020 By: Pish_Pash Member since: Feb 1, 2013
    #35
  16. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

    24,443 2,970
    Wow, indeed a dog falling from a bike is news.
    Hopefully not hurt. Though does raise the question why put the dog on the bike in the first place?

    Being poor in the UK means having a set income and buying enough to eat. We apparently have millions of poor people yet very few starve to death or develop problems due to malnutrition caused by not being able to have enough to eat.
    Indeed, if you listen to the press we have an obesity problem - not one usually associated with not enough to eat.
     
    Posted: Aug 30, 2020 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
    #36
  17. billybob99

    billybob99 UKBF Regular Free Member

    1,739 556
    Staff are a pain in the butt. There's so much talent all over the place you don't have to put up with dopey buggers here.

    For my very first product I did the initial research myself but then outsourced the listing copy and images for cheap as chips and it was on point and on time.

    There's pros and cons of Amazon and vs starting my own eCommerce store, one of the pros is that my product is in front of millions of people within days, and sold out within another few days.

    I think the actual fulfilment fees are pretty competitive - its just the shocking referral fees.
     
    Posted: Aug 30, 2020 By: billybob99 Member since: Apr 23, 2013
    #37
  18. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

    24,443 2,970
    The referral fees are shocking despite the product being in front of millions of people within days and sold out within another few days????
    I'd hate to think what you could have sold without those fees.

    Amazon is nice and all but not suitable for every product. For the customers they have they can be pretty useful as you found.
     
    Posted: Aug 30, 2020 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
    #38
  19. billybob99

    billybob99 UKBF Regular Free Member

    1,739 556
    Yes that's what I said > the referral fees are shocking.

    £32 referral fee is a bit high + £4 FBA fee.

    I could go via my own website and send targeted traffic via Adwords which is the long term plan.

    Being a higher priced, heavier item would cost me a few bob more to ship but nowhere near £32 to acquire a new customer - Amazon is the perfect stepping stone to validate products.
     
    Posted: Aug 30, 2020 By: billybob99 Member since: Apr 23, 2013
    #39
  20. Clinton

    Clinton UKBF Legend Full Member

    5,015 2,180
    Amazon is a dangerous beast. They'll let you build the market for your widget and then they'll muscle in and compete with you.

    Amazon are about size, about getting even bigger, about their own interests. Despite what many people think, Amazon are not about making it easy for micro businesses to startup and thrive.

    It's a lot of small mum and pop operations, WFH jobbers etc., that have contributed to the problem that Amazon has become. These entrepreneurs got seduced by the (somewhat) easy money and built their castle on the beach next to the water's edge. That's a business risk in itself that they should be recognising and protecting against.
     
    Posted: Aug 30, 2020 By: Clinton Member since: Jan 17, 2010
    #40