General Business Forum Brought to you by Salesforce

An itch that needs scratching

Discussion in 'General Business Forum' started by Fuzzy, Jan 24, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Trainer Bubble

    Trainer Bubble UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    191 37
    Part of the problem is (at least in my field of work) that there are so many people out there who sell an inferior service at an incredibly reduced rate, customers wonder why our consultancy work is more expensive.

    You get what you pay for and I have to say that a cheap service that doesn't achieve results is really not a good investment at all. Sadly, it seems a lot of customers don't see it that way.

    Often when customers try to knock down the price it can be useful to say, 'So what do you want to leave out then?' This refocuses the mind a little!
     
    Posted: Jan 24, 2008 By: Trainer Bubble Member since: Jan 22, 2008
    #21
  2. Fuzzy

    Fuzzy UKBF Legend Free Member

    5,365 506
    'So what do you want to leave out then?' This refocuses the mind a little!"

    Wicked!!:D
     
    Posted: Jan 24, 2008 By: Fuzzy Member since: Oct 20, 2007
    #22
  3. Chippie

    Chippie UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    805 140
    Fantastic!! I'll try that today! :)
     
    Posted: Jan 24, 2008 By: Chippie Member since: Jan 3, 2008
    #23
  4. DuaneJackson

    DuaneJackson UKBF Legend Full Member

    9,527 1,118
    Looks like you've opened a real can of fuzzy worms here!

    Becuase it takes time to do that and there are a lot of timewasters out there.

    One option it to have a standard 2 minute description of the different types of sites and the budget range and ask them where they fit.

    It's amazing how quickly and how often that brings the customer around to your way of thinking!

    Don't leave us in suspense! How did they react?
     
    Posted: Jan 24, 2008 By: DuaneJackson Member since: Jul 14, 2005
    #24
  5. An Oasis

    An Oasis UKBF Newcomer Full Member

    9,901 1,684
    Well they should, they obviously have to deal with loads of time wasters.
     
    Posted: Jan 24, 2008 By: An Oasis Member since: Oct 3, 2006
    #25
  6. Fuzzy

    Fuzzy UKBF Legend Free Member

    5,365 506
    Well at least it's not Fuzzy drivel or gossip :p:D
     
    Posted: Jan 24, 2008 By: Fuzzy Member since: Oct 20, 2007
    #26
  7. Trainer Bubble

    Trainer Bubble UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    191 37

    Ha ha, you should. It works!
     
    Posted: Jan 24, 2008 By: Trainer Bubble Member since: Jan 22, 2008
    #27
  8. spencergate

    spencergate UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    538 94
    When I was a child, my father owned a garden centre (bear with me here, it is relevant).

    If someone picked up a shrub or tree, and said "how high will it grow?", He would slowly raise his hand, watch for their eyes to light up, and then stop and say "about that high".

    I'm afraid I think the same thing applies when someone says "Well, what is your budget ?"

    That question puts me off. Show me some examples, tell me what they cost, let me decide which type I can afford.
    But don't make me feel like you are just trying to take whatever money I've got.
     
    Posted: Jan 24, 2008 By: spencergate Member since: Apr 18, 2006
    #28
  9. Trainer Bubble

    Trainer Bubble UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    191 37
    Of course there is another way to approach this question.

    "What have others quoted you?", avoids the pitfalls of the "What is your budget?" question. Although it does potentially raise some other issues.
     
    Posted: Jan 24, 2008 By: Trainer Bubble Member since: Jan 22, 2008
    #29
  10. spencergate

    spencergate UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    538 94
    No, that doesn't work for me either. TBH that would make me think that you want to just undercut them by a tenner.

    In the case of a website, you should have an idea of what certain features will cost to include.

    So if you show me a site, and I say

    "Yes but can you include xyz", you should be able to say "yes, but that will cost around an extra £NNNNN".​


     
    Posted: Jan 24, 2008 By: spencergate Member since: Apr 18, 2006
    #30
  11. Trainer Bubble

    Trainer Bubble UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    191 37
    I agree with you. I wasn't specifically referring to websites, just throwing ideas into the pot for general use.
     
    Posted: Jan 24, 2008 By: Trainer Bubble Member since: Jan 22, 2008
    #31
  12. sirearl

    sirearl UKBF Legend Free Member

    29,807 6,645
    Agree smells fishy when someone is asked how much have you got to spend.:eek:

    No reson why a web designer can not have on there site a list of prices for various types of sites

    5 pages HTML from £300.00

    10 pages bla bla bla

    databases from xxxx

    If a salesman were to ask me how much have I got to spend.The answer would be "as little as possible for the product I want"

    or to be more polite "Mind your ownd F**king Business.:eek::D

    Earl
     
    Posted: Jan 24, 2008 By: sirearl Member since: Apr 23, 2007
    #32
  13. Sally@CC

    [email protected] UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    872 26
    Sorry but most businesses have time wasters and perhaps if web designers were more transparent about their prices there would be fewer of them.

    I think what infuriates people is this cloak and dagger, it's a dark art attitude. Surely you know roughly how much it costs to build a 4 page standard ecommerce site? So why can't people say the standard version is £xxx and if you want to add flash or bells and whistles then the price will go up accordingly.

    If you go to buy a car the standard model is this but we all know if we add the super delux seat covers, teas maid and wide wheels the price will increase accordingly.
     
    Posted: Jan 24, 2008 By: [email protected] Member since: Oct 17, 2007
    #33
  14. DuaneJackson

    DuaneJackson UKBF Legend Full Member

    9,527 1,118
    I agree that designers/developers need to be more transparent about their prices. Giving a rough price for a 4 page site and rough prices for bigger sites is what I advocated above.

    But my comment about time wasters was in response to the suggestion of providing a quote with different options - which takes a lot of time.

    I know all business have timewasters. And all businesses develop ways to try to weed them out as early as possible to minimise the time wasted. Ascertaining how much a company is expectng to spend on a site is one way it's done in this business.

    I do agree with the overall feeling that "What is your budget?" is a bit too blunt. But you do need to quickly work out the answer to that question as quick as possdible, but with a bit more tact.
     
    Posted: Jan 24, 2008 By: DuaneJackson Member since: Jul 14, 2005
    #34
  15. DuaneJackson

    DuaneJackson UKBF Legend Full Member

    9,527 1,118
    The analogy doesn't stand up. Cars come off a production line. Bespoke websites don't.

    Youre comparing a product with a service.
     
    Posted: Jan 24, 2008 By: DuaneJackson Member since: Jul 14, 2005
    #35
  16. glencooley.com

    glencooley.com UKBF Ace Free Member

    1,704 165
    I think that clients who run businesses should have no qualms about saying what there budget is. It saves a lot of research and discovery time.

    It also allows a development/creative team(s) to look at how to best deliver for a budget. Off the shelf this, bespoke that etc.

    Another benefit is that web teams can see if what you want technically and creatively is available to your budget.

    If I am serious about buying anything I will state the budget. Although this may be open to some abuse but a budget is the amount you are happy to spend so I can see the problem with setting a budget and getting a few people to quote to that budget.

    It all gets a bit whimsical when you just ask for costs and get prices varying wildly :s

    Thanks
     
    Posted: Jan 24, 2008 By: glencooley.com Member since: Sep 12, 2007
    #36
  17. spencergate

    spencergate UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    538 94
    Duane,

    But you seem to regard anyone making an enquiry as a timewaster.

    X may be starting out with no idea of what a website is going to cost him, he doesn't know whether to budget £500 or £5000 pounds, so he has come to you to find out.

    If your attitude is so unhelpful, that you regard him as a timewaster simply because he knows only about his own line of work, and not yours, then frankly you don't deserve the business.

    And I have to say that a lot of small businesses don't formally budget to the extent several people here expect. Maybe they should, but they don't. It doesn't mean that they don't have the money to spend tho'.
     
    Posted: Jan 24, 2008 By: spencergate Member since: Apr 18, 2006
    #37
  18. Interconnect IT

    Interconnect IT UKBF Ace Free Member

    1,244 195
    I dunno if the car/web thing is such a bad mix. Going along to a car dealer and saying "I want a vehicle, and it must have at least three seats. How much will it cost?" is a rather vague question too, and has a multitude of answers.

    It could be a Transit or a McLaren F1. Vastly different, with vastly different qualities. And the latter is absolutely rubbish at lugging bathroom suites around, even though it costs a lot more.

    The thing to do very quickly is to find out just how much work the client has done themselves. Some are great - they've put thought and effort into it all, know what they want, and have a good idea of what they can afford. Others haven't any clue whatsoever.

    And to answer the question about how the £100 folk replied... well they simply said "sorry, we'll not bother then" after a week.
     
    Posted: Jan 24, 2008 By: Interconnect IT Member since: Nov 15, 2007
    #38
  19. glencooley.com

    glencooley.com UKBF Ace Free Member

    1,704 165
    I think thats the point. As a business it really should be your responsibility to have a "budget" that doesnt mean its fixed but only you the business no how much is in the coffers and what the starting point is for allocating that for advertising, web design, new phone system etc.

    With something that is typically developed, tested, designed around your business (regardless of off the shelf) it is a tailored solution unless you are down the £2.50 route. With this in mind a budget helps to cap costs and shows as a serious intent that you have thought about it and made money available for it.

    It is also very hard to cost development time and creative time and testing time without spending time understanding the project.

    Some companies have a quality/over head base that means that they will only work on projects of a certain size so to minimise your risk as a development company you ask the question "what is your budget" which is an honest an important question and less patronising than "we have a 10k minimum project value"

    I guess it depends on the size of the business looking for the service though. Typically meduim to larger organisation research, allocate and dedicate resource to web (or any other newmedia/development) project.
     
    Posted: Jan 24, 2008 By: glencooley.com Member since: Sep 12, 2007
    #39
  20. sirearl

    sirearl UKBF Legend Free Member

    29,807 6,645
    Glen if I want a kettle I look on Comets site and there they are all 30 of them with description and prices.

    Are you saying as an experienced web designer that you can't do that for you web design business.

    Stop putting the onus on the customer ,no one else does.

    Plus if you have no prices its been proven that it drasticaly reduces your sales on the grounds that who wants to look at a piece of string:rolleyes::D

    Earl
    P.S no comments about not wanting to sell kettles:rolleyes:
     
    Posted: Jan 24, 2008 By: sirearl Member since: Apr 23, 2007
    #40
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.