All Malaysian Flight 370 could be still alive and kicking

Discussion in 'Time Out' started by Swisaw, Mar 26, 2014.

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  1. Swisaw

    Swisaw UKBF Ace Full Member

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    Obviously you have to get rid of the cargo and fuel before landing. The wings may not break necessarily but loss all panels. Body compression system must be separate from the wings. So even if the wings separate they can not damage compression system. So no water should go into the body. As long as water doesn't go inside, the body should remain floating. Putting floaters under the body is not a problem if you have prepared for it in time.
     
    Posted: Apr 14, 2014 By: Swisaw Member since: Sep 24, 2010
  2. fisicx

    fisicx It's Major Clanger! Staff Member

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    Where are these floaters going to come from? How are you going to jettison all the cargo?

    If any panels come off the aircraft will fill with water and sink. Water landings are possible and you can survive but only in shallow water at low speed. I has nothing to do with the skill of the pilot, it all about the local conditions. One of which has to be no waves.

    I've been working with aircraft almost all my working life and know what works and what doesn't. And water landings are very dodgy. If you survive the landing you only have a few minute afloat before the fuselage fills with water.
     
    Posted: Apr 14, 2014 By: fisicx Member since: Sep 12, 2006
  3. sirearl

    sirearl UKBF Legend Free Member

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    Having built and flown several aircraft including a Spitfire,One could say that.

    see HERE.;)
     
    Posted: Apr 14, 2014 By: sirearl Member since: Apr 23, 2007
  4. Swisaw

    Swisaw UKBF Ace Full Member

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    sorry dublicate post.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
    Posted: Apr 14, 2014 By: Swisaw Member since: Sep 24, 2010
  5. Swisaw

    Swisaw UKBF Ace Full Member

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    They come by ships or submarines. Wing panels will come off, not body panels. I think you gave me an 'Ahha'. Theoretically the waves should help in the landing. If you land it on the direction of the waves, they should act as a cushion against a heavy impact. A few minutes are more than enough for a trained team to take control of the plane the moment touches water.

    Are you a cousin of Excell Expert. He was also in Aviation industry but gave it up in favour of IT or computer industry.:p
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
    Posted: Apr 14, 2014 By: Swisaw Member since: Sep 24, 2010
  6. simon field

    simon field UKBF Big Shot Full Member - Verified Business

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    But the 'waves' as you so childishly put it would be six to eight metre swells, so it would be akin to landing a large aircraft in a lumpy concrete mess.

    Look, admit you're mad. Fans that give out more energy than you put in? Planes that stealthily, nimbly land in the roughest seas on the planet with mysterious Iranian nutter-nuclear scientists hopping out onto 'floaters' and then dissapearing into the night - for no reason whatsoever?

    You are bonkers.
     
    Posted: Apr 14, 2014 By: simon field Member since: Feb 4, 2011
  7. fisicx

    fisicx It's Major Clanger! Staff Member

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    Really? Do a belly flop into the water at 120knots and tell me if it feels like a cushion.
     
    Posted: Apr 14, 2014 By: fisicx Member since: Sep 12, 2006
  8. johndon68

    johndon68 UKBF Big Shot Full Member - Verified Business

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    You forgot the frictionless mass transport system...
     
    Posted: Apr 14, 2014 By: johndon68 Member since: Nov 2, 2009
  9. Swisaw

    Swisaw UKBF Ace Full Member

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    Well, if am a bonker or not I will stick to my gun because I have a plausible reason. Wind creates waves. So you have to land on the same direction of the wind and waves. So when the plane touches the waves, they should act as a cushion and rollers.

    http://www.livescience.com/38361-how-do-ocean-waves-form.html
     
    Posted: Apr 14, 2014 By: Swisaw Member since: Sep 24, 2010
  10. johndon68

    johndon68 UKBF Big Shot Full Member - Verified Business

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    How waves are formed has absolutely no bearing on your perceived ability for them to cushion an aircraft on landing - landing in to the face of waves is akin to flying straight in to a cliff face...

    As I understand it, the preferred option, should ditching become necessary, is, under most circumstances, to try and land at 90 degrees to the waves, the exact opposite of what you propose...

    John
     
    Posted: Apr 14, 2014 By: johndon68 Member since: Nov 2, 2009
  11. Jeff FV

    Jeff FV UKBF Big Shot Staff Member

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    The biggest problem with ditching an airliner on water are the two (in the case of the 777) whacking great big engine pods slung underneath the wings. As soon as they make contact with the water they will act as giant brakes, scooping up vast quantities of water and causing complete loss of control, probably forcing the nose of the a/c underwater etc. etc.

    The miracle of the Hudson (when an aircraft successfully ditched on the Hudson river) is so called because it is amazing that anyone, let alone all, survived as no-one really expects an aircraft to survive a ditching. That was on a benign, calm, day on a flat river. To plan to ditch in the Southern Ocean ...?!

    @Swisaw I enjoy your posts, on this thread and others. You clearly enjoy and think a lot about technical and engineering matters and also like a bit of a thriller, a good yarn. I am currently re-reading Tom Clancy's "Hunt for Red October": a great techno thriller (but about submarines, not aircraft I'm afraid). I think you might like it. My copy is a (good condition) 2nd hand copy I bought of eBay. If you like, when I finish reading it (probably in the next couple of days) I'm happy to send it to you (no charge, not even postage!). If you would like it, pm me your address; its a great read.

    J
     
    Posted: Apr 14, 2014 By: Jeff FV Member since: Jan 10, 2009
  12. stockdam

    stockdam UKBF Ace Free Member

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    I suggest you stop wild speculation as you are digging a big hole and looking silly. An aircraft cannot slide across the huge waves of an ocean. A landing on sea can not be done safely and only a fool would attempt to do it to be rescued by a submarine waiting nearby.

    Stop making silly suggestions that would even sound far fetched in a James Bond movie.
     
    Posted: Apr 14, 2014 By: stockdam Member since: Jul 3, 2008
  13. Paul Brooke

    Paul Brooke Banned

    157 27
    There is a post on here that keeps cropping up from time to time on here. I think it is called something like "keep the jokes coming". Well I have to say it is not a patch on this. This cracks me up bigtime. Is there a prize on here for the most outrageous explanation of the disappearance? Keep em coming Swisaw... you really are something else dude
     
    Posted: Apr 14, 2014 By: Paul Brooke Member since: Mar 8, 2011
  14. Swisaw

    Swisaw UKBF Ace Full Member

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    Many thanks dear Jeff. I have seen 'Hunt for Red October' more than once. Frankly it didn't thrill or amuse me. But it was a bit interesting because of Sean Connery.

    For the benefits of of Johndon68. How waves formed helps you to know the direction of the wave so that you land on the same direction. As an expert pilot you chase the wave and try to land the bottom of the plane on the back of the wave. If the wave is very big, it should be enough to act as a roller under the plane and as a cushion. If the wave is not very big the plane will cut it to go to the next wave. So if the waves are not big enough you may need two or three one after another before completing the landing process.


    If wind creates waves they must be rolling forward. An expert pilot can use this property to prevent the front of the plane quickly touches water.

    You ditch for emergency reason without full control. In this case we assume the pilot is in full control and an expert. If the front of the plane touches water quickly the wings could break as the engines act as breaks.But an expert pilot will try to minimize this damage so that the plane doesn't overturn from the back.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
    Posted: Apr 14, 2014 By: Swisaw Member since: Sep 24, 2010
  15. sirearl

    sirearl UKBF Legend Free Member

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    88% do.;)

    http://www.pilotfriend.com/safe/safety/ditching.htm
     
    Posted: Apr 14, 2014 By: sirearl Member since: Apr 23, 2007
  16. Swisaw

    Swisaw UKBF Ace Full Member

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    Posted: Apr 14, 2014 By: Swisaw Member since: Sep 24, 2010
  17. johndon68

    johndon68 UKBF Big Shot Full Member - Verified Business

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    So the pilot is now going to match his speed to that of the waves :eek:
     
    Posted: Apr 14, 2014 By: johndon68 Member since: Nov 2, 2009
  18. johndon68

    johndon68 UKBF Big Shot Full Member - Verified Business

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    @Swisaw

    God only knows why but I'm going to humour you for a moment.

    Assuming all of your previous theories are correct, i.e. Navy Seal trained hijackers who not only took control of the aircraft but also took out every surveillance satellite over the Indian Ocean at the same time etc. etc...

    With such meticulous planning and co-ordination why on earth would you then deliberately plan to get a pilot to make the all but physically impossible (i.e. almost zero chance of the plane landing and retaining the structural integrity of the fuselage) move of ditching in the sea, you would not go to all that earlier trouble to see the plane break up in to a million pieces on impact with the water...
     
    Posted: Apr 14, 2014 By: johndon68 Member since: Nov 2, 2009
  19. Billmccallum

    Billmccallum UKBF Newcomer Full Member

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    Is this an admission that you may well be bonkers? Careful with that gun !!!!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 14, 2014
    Posted: Apr 14, 2014 By: Billmccallum Member since: Apr 20, 2010
  20. Swisaw

    Swisaw UKBF Ace Full Member

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    It may not be possible. But the waves should act as a smooth brake.
     
    Posted: Apr 14, 2014 By: Swisaw Member since: Sep 24, 2010
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