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Training / Learning Agreement

Discussion in 'Employment & HR' started by HR_sam, Jan 6, 2017.

  1. HR_sam

    HR_sam UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    Posts: 8 Likes: 0
    Advice Required

    I started a new role at the beginning of the year, it was agreed that the organisation would fund a one year college course which began in September. In October I was given a learning agreement to sign to say if I left within a year completion of the course i would be liable for all the fees! I put the agreement in my drawer and signing it 'slipped my mind!' I have now decided to leave the company due to the job not being anything like it was sold to me. The organisation have advised they will invoice me for the full cost but haven't said anything about the my issing agreement!

    I have checked all my records and found that there is nothing in writing or electronically where I have agreed to repay the costs.

    Can the organisation still enforce payment if there is no signed contract or agreement?
     
    Posted: Jan 6, 2017 By: HR_sam Member since: Jan 6, 2017
    #1
  2. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

    Posts: 6,232 Likes: 1,559
    I think they may struggle, especially as they didn't even ask you to repay until after you had started the course.
     
    Posted: Jan 6, 2017 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #2
  3. HR_sam

    HR_sam UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    Posts: 8 Likes: 0
    Thanks, I'm wondering how I'm going to handle the situation when they send the the request to pay o_O
     
    Posted: Jan 7, 2017 By: HR_sam Member since: Jan 6, 2017
    #3
  4. The Accountancy Lab

    The Accountancy Lab UKBF Ace Free Member

    Posts: 1,605 Likes: 358
    Ask them to send you signed copies of your agreement as you don't recall receiving one.
     
    Posted: Jan 7, 2017 By: The Accountancy Lab Member since: Aug 7, 2016
    #4
  5. HR_sam

    HR_sam UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    Posts: 8 Likes: 0
    I'm wondering what if anything they can do legally if there is nothing signed? There isn't anything on my contract of employment about education or course fees. They will also owe me some pay for my last months work, although I'm wondering if they can legally stop the pay to cover some of the fees?
     
    Posted: Jan 7, 2017 By: HR_sam Member since: Jan 6, 2017
    #5
  6. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

    Posts: 6,232 Likes: 1,559
    Not legally, no. Not in the absence of your signed agreement.
     
    Posted: Jan 7, 2017 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #6
  7. profitxchange

    profitxchange UKBF Ace Free Member

    Posts: 1,684 Likes: 189
    They can turn the initiative onto you by not paying your last pay cheque. I would suggest thst if you started the course it could be deemed you had agreed to the terms. Its going to get messy!
     
    Posted: Jan 7, 2017 By: profitxchange Member since: Apr 16, 2005
    #7
  8. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

    Posts: 6,232 Likes: 1,559
    But if you read the original post, he was not asked about repaying fees until after the course started, so he could not possibly be deemed to have agreed the terms.
     
    Posted: Jan 7, 2017 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #8
  9. Employment Law Clinic

    Employment Law Clinic UKBF Ace Full Member - Verified Business

    Posts: 2,979 Likes: 1,409
    But if you read the original post, a document 'slipped my mind!'. What else "slipped" the OP's mind when posting what was agreed? Perhaps the fact he would be required to repay the fees before the course started? And when exactly was the beginning of the year, if not six days ago?


    I get a feeling the OP is being deliberately vague to get the responses they want to hear.


    Karl Limpert
     
    Posted: Jan 7, 2017 By: Employment Law Clinic Member since: Aug 10, 2009
    #9
  10. The Accountancy Lab

    The Accountancy Lab UKBF Ace Free Member

    Posts: 1,605 Likes: 358
    Many OP's do the same, but respondents can't be expected to be clairvoyant.
     
    Posted: Jan 7, 2017 By: The Accountancy Lab Member since: Aug 7, 2016
    #10
  11. HR_sam

    HR_sam UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    Posts: 8 Likes: 0
    'The beginning of the year was 2016, unfortunately my head hasn't quite got round to 2017 yet!!

    I started the course in sept 2016, after around a month I was given the learning contract, asked to sign it and hand it back to my manager, which I forgot to do. It wasn't until I come to leave I remembered they hadn't chased me up for the copy thought that they either they may notice when I handed in my notice or ask me to sign after handing in my notice.

    I'm not deliberately vague about anything, I've simply asked for advice!
     
    Posted: Jan 7, 2017 By: HR_sam Member since: Jan 6, 2017
    #11
  12. Employment Law Clinic

    Employment Law Clinic UKBF Ace Full Member - Verified Business

    Posts: 2,979 Likes: 1,409
    But that's my point: respondents are being clairvoyant, seeing for sure that he was not asked about repaying the fees until the course started.


    I suspect the full details, an accurate chronology of all events, everything that was said, would be necessary before commenting.


    Karl Limpert
     
    Posted: Jan 7, 2017 By: Employment Law Clinic Member since: Aug 10, 2009
    #12
  13. Employment Law Clinic

    Employment Law Clinic UKBF Ace Full Member - Verified Business

    Posts: 2,979 Likes: 1,409
    And was there absolutely no discussions before you started the course? How did it even come about that you would start a course, paid by the employer, without any discussion or agreement?


    Karl Limpert
     
    Posted: Jan 7, 2017 By: Employment Law Clinic Member since: Aug 10, 2009
    #13
  14. HR_sam

    HR_sam UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    Posts: 8 Likes: 0
    The course was relevant to my role, I asked if the organisation would support the funding to which they agreed, I was told a contract would be drawn up. It took around 4 weeks for me to be given said contract which was after me starting the course! I didn't ask about the details as in my mind and at that time I thought I'd be there for quite some time.
     
    Posted: Jan 7, 2017 By: HR_sam Member since: Jan 6, 2017
    #14
  15. Employment Law Clinic

    Employment Law Clinic UKBF Ace Full Member - Verified Business

    Posts: 2,979 Likes: 1,409

    So you started a course in September, and received a contract relating to it a month later. But there was nothing before that? Was the course available immediately you asked to start it? And when it was agreed, what exactly were the terms of agreement?


    Still feels far too vague for my liking. I feel there’s something more here.



    Karl Limpert
     
    Posted: Jan 7, 2017 By: Employment Law Clinic Member since: Aug 10, 2009
    #15
  16. HR_sam

    HR_sam UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    Posts: 8 Likes: 0
    Yes, started sept the agreement was given after the start date.

    The course was available immediately as I had made enquiries before the academic year and applied at a night class. Once I knew I'd been accepted I asked re the support from employer as it was applicable to my role, had they have declined I would have possibly taken out a student finance.
    When the organisation advised they would support the cost I was told (verbally) about the agreement and again told verbally it's to detail arrangemts should I leave within six months of completing the course.
    In fact I won't actually complete the course for another 9/10 months.
     
    Posted: Jan 7, 2017 By: HR_sam Member since: Jan 6, 2017
    #16
  17. Employment Law Clinic

    Employment Law Clinic UKBF Ace Full Member - Verified Business

    Posts: 2,979 Likes: 1,409
    I’m still no clearer. How did you start the course in September, if it wasn’t paid for?


    What did the organisation (is that the employer?) agree, and state, and when? And when did they make any payments?


    And what were you told about the agreement to cover the fees, and what was your response?


    A chronology would be useful, i.e.:


    1 Sept 2016 Started course


    2 Sept 2016 Chased up for course fees by course provider


    3 Sept 2016 Asked employer to cover fees, explaining how this would be of use to my role (which wasn't what it was described as)


    4 Sept 2016 (Very quickly) employer agreed to pay fees, with conditions explained to me, that I agreed to (verbally)


    1 October Received a written document clarifying what I had verbally agreed


    2 October Written agreement ‘slipped my mind’, so was slipped into my desk drawer, where I wouldn’t see it

    31 December Decided to leave, but don't want to pay for the course I specifically sourced out

    Early January Seeking advice to see if I can stiff my employer for the costs of the course I tried out, but am not finding helpful.


    Or what happened, and when?


    Karl Limpert
     
    Posted: Jan 7, 2017 By: Employment Law Clinic Member since: Aug 10, 2009
    #17
  18. HR_sam

    HR_sam UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    Posts: 8 Likes: 0
    I actually am enjoying the course and will continue to complete it, I haven't just 'tried it out' and do not plan on just giving it up!

    :D

    Getting personal, that's impressive!
     
    Posted: Jan 7, 2017 By: HR_sam Member since: Jan 6, 2017
    #18
  19. Employment Law Clinic

    Employment Law Clinic UKBF Ace Full Member - Verified Business

    Posts: 2,979 Likes: 1,409

    In the context of this original post, this (particularly the emphasis, the exclamation mark) implies you knew nothing about being liable for the fees in advance, and it came as a complete surprise to you.



    What is the case? Were you told you would be liable for the costs at all? Was it all a surprise, or did you understand the agreement, and just 'forgot to sign'?


    Karl Limpert
     
    Posted: Jan 7, 2017 By: Employment Law Clinic Member since: Aug 10, 2009
    #19
  20. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

    Posts: 6,232 Likes: 1,559
    Karl, have you overlooked that this is a person who came on here for advice, not a claimant in the ET being cross-examined?
     
    Posted: Jan 7, 2017 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #20