Help with calculating holiday entitlement please, ACAS & employer disagree!

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Tegan J, Jun 3, 2010.

  1. Tegan J

    Tegan J UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    I'm so confused & I don't know where to turn - my boss's holiday calculation doesn't tally with ACAS's verification of my calculations.

    My contract states that I get 25 days hol + 8 bank hols = 33 days holiday per year. Fine. This was based on full time working.
    I've now started work part time, 16 hours a week, rather than standard 40 hrs.

    Pro rata'd my holiday would be 16/40 hours x 100 = 40% of time worked.
    33 days x 40% = 13.2 days holiday.
    BUT I only work mornings - 4 hours a day, for 4 days a week.
    So do I get 13.2 mornings leave per year = only 3 1/2 weeks holiday a year, or do I get 13.2 8 hour days, i.e. 26.4 half days, = almost 7 weeks a year, which was what I got when I worked full time.

    ACAS thought the latter, my boss thought the former, I very much hope ACAS were right. Please help, I'm losing sleep!
    Posted: Jun 3, 2010 By: Tegan J Member since: Jun 3, 2010
    #1
  2. ccp consultancy

    ccp consultancy UKBF Contributor Free Member

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    Your contractual holiday is 33 days per year, based on a full time 5 day a week basis, therefore if you have you reduced yoru working week by one day your entitlement will also be reduced pro rata

    If you are reducing your days then your entitlement will be pro/rata (33/5) *4. You will be entitled to 26.4 days per holiday year on your new shifts. (You can work out the hourly entitlement by multiplying your contracted shifts for each day 26.4*4 = 105.6 annual hours)

    If your company still conflict with the above - ask them to provide you detailed calculations on how they have come to this conclusion


    Hope this helps
    Clare
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2010
    Posted: Jun 3, 2010 By: ccp consultancy Member since: Mar 2, 2010
    #2
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  3. Bob

    Bob UKBF Contributor Free Member

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    Clare, does it matter that the contract refers to 25 days + 8 days bank holidays? Would it matter if the day the op has off each week were a Monday or a Friday?
    Posted: Jun 3, 2010 By: Bob Member since: Jul 24, 2009
    #3
  4. ccp consultancy

    ccp consultancy UKBF Contributor Free Member

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    With regards to bank holidays (depending on what the normal practise is for working on bank holidays / what their actual contract states) - part timers must not be treated any less favourably than a full time employee, and so would be entitled to 1/5th of their working contract as holiday.

    If they normally do not work Mondays, then they will recive 1/5th pay for bank holiday. If they are normally contracted to work - for arguments sake 8 hours on Monday - they would equally recieve 1/5th payment for this day - which may turn out to be less than the contracted hours that they should have worked - can get a little complicated:eek:
    Posted: Jun 3, 2010 By: ccp consultancy Member since: Mar 2, 2010
    #4
  5. Bob

    Bob UKBF Contributor Free Member

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    I didn't know the answer and wish I hadn't asked the question :rolleyes:

    Thank God I no longer employ staff !!!!!!!!!
    Posted: Jun 3, 2010 By: Bob Member since: Jul 24, 2009
    #5
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  6. Employment Law Clinic

    Employment Law Clinic UKBF Contributor Full Member - Verified Business

    Posts: 2,511 Likes: 1,237
    As Clare mentions, can get complicated!

    The easiest way of resolving this would be for the OP to ask for the revision to their statement of particulars (employers, take note: has to be issued within one month of the change of hours), as this details holiday entitlements, including public holidays & holiday pay, and the information needs to be sufficiently detailed to allow calculations to be made on accrued holiday entitlements. At least with that document, we'd understand where the employer's thinking is - far easier than losing sleep as well as holidays.

    Clare's calculations look clever to me though, so I'm not going to get a calcuator out. I guess that means ACAS is on the ball too :eek:.


    Karl Limpert
    Posted: Jun 3, 2010 By: Employment Law Clinic Member since: Aug 10, 2009
    #6
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  7. Tegan J

    Tegan J UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    Hi Karl and Clare

    thank you for your brilliant help, it's made my day. I'm going to ask my employer for a Statement of Particulars, as you suggest. Where do I go from there? ACAS suggested commencing a grievance proceedure against them but it all sounds a bit formal & I don't much like confrontation! How can I tell a quite formidable HR lady that she's wrong???

    yours in hope,

    Tegan
    Posted: Jun 7, 2010 By: Tegan J Member since: Jun 3, 2010
    #7
  8. ccp consultancy

    ccp consultancy UKBF Contributor Free Member

    Posts: 515 Likes: 173
    write a letter something along the lines of.....

    Dear HR Lady

    I write with regards to my holiday pay.

    I have recently reduced my hours to 16 per week over a 4 day week

    I would be grateful if you could please clarify the position with regards to my holiday

    I have spoken with ACAS and they have said that as my contractual holiday is 33 days per year, based on a full time 5 day a week basis, if I reduce my working week by one day my entitlement will also be reduced pro rata. They provided me with the following calculation

    Your entitlement will be pro/rata (33/5) *4. You will be entitled to 26.4 days per holiday year on your new shifts. (You can work out the hourly entitlement by multiplying your contracted shifts for each day 26.4*4 = 105.6 annual hours).

    This is slightly different to the figure that you gave me. Can you please confirm what is the correct figure to be applied,

    Thank you
    Posted: Jun 7, 2010 By: ccp consultancy Member since: Mar 2, 2010
    #8
  9. Consistency

    Consistency Banned

    Posts: 8,215 Likes: 1,543
    I think there are more of us starting to think that way!
    Posted: Jun 7, 2010 By: Consistency Member since: May 21, 2010
    #9
  10. Tegan J

    Tegan J UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    it all sounds very easy.. I'll let you know how I get on!
    Posted: Jun 8, 2010 By: Tegan J Member since: Jun 3, 2010
    #10
  11. Employment Law Clinic

    Employment Law Clinic UKBF Contributor Full Member - Verified Business

    Posts: 2,511 Likes: 1,237
    That's because it is easy! And even easier with Clare's helpful letter!!

    You simply need to get the idea that this is confrontational out of your head: an employee & employer disagreeing is not confrontational, it's simply a disagreement. We can all make mistakes, and when someone shows that to be the case, most sensible people (employers or otherwise) will accept that.

    I've told many formidable HR ladies & gents that they're wrong, often in heated arguments where professional etiquette & language is left at the door of the meeting room. You simply tell them, and don't be intimidated.

    The fact is that paid annual leave is part of your contract. If you take leave and don't get paid, it's equivalent to working and not getting paid: the paid leave is pay that's banked to be received later - when you're not working.


    Send Clare's letter, meet with HR, and don't be intimidated. What's the worse that can happen? They disagree with your calculations! :eek:



    Karl Limpert
    Posted: Jun 8, 2010 By: Employment Law Clinic Member since: Aug 10, 2009
    #11