False signature on contract and court dates set:

Discussion in 'Legal' started by jimmy156, Aug 23, 2010.

  1. jimmy156

    jimmy156 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    Posts: 9 Likes: 0
    Hello, how are you?

    Thank you for reading this post, I really appreciate your advice.

    I was a company director in 2007, around 3 months after leaving my post I found that I had been singed up as a guarantor on a vehicle which has been financed out to company where I was a director.

    Another director has also signed up as guarantor and is also denying that he did not sign the contract.

    Now the finance is worth £100, 000 on the vehicle it’s Aston Martin.

    The finance company are pursuing my self, the other director and the grg which sold the vehicle for the outstanding sum as they cannot find the vehicle.

    Now I am the first defendant, the court has given directions for me and the claimant to appoint a graphologist to see if my signature is real.

    We have done this, the graphologist has come back with a very inconclusive answer and has said “this signature may or may not be” my signature. So therefore the graphologists findings are inconclusive

    Further the more the grg who sold the vehicle are now alleging the have 2 witness who witnessed my sing the contract, which cannot be as I have never signed it .

    Can you give me any sort of legal advice in this matter please.


    Posted: Aug 23, 2010 By: jimmy156 Member since: Aug 23, 2010
  2. kulture

    kulture UKBF Legend Moderator

    Posts: 6,626 Likes: 1,815
    Go see a solicitor. Go NOW. This is a serious amount of debt which you cannot have hanging over you.
    Posted: Aug 23, 2010 By: kulture Member since: Aug 11, 2007
  3. jimmy156

    jimmy156 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    Posts: 9 Likes: 0

    Thanks for the reply.

    I cannot afford a solictor and legal aid do not help in matters resulting from business etc.
    Posted: Aug 23, 2010 By: jimmy156 Member since: Aug 23, 2010
  4. consultant

    consultant I Can Help Your Business Moderator

    Posts: 4,095 Likes: 511
    Where and when did you alledgedly sign the contract?

    I fyou can prove you were elsewhere or the venue had security camera's, you might be able to prove your signature was forged!
    Posted: Aug 23, 2010 By: consultant Member since: Jan 21, 2008
  5. Hombre

    Hombre UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    Posts: 126 Likes: 14
    I would double check the legal aid point as I don't think this is correct. Go and see C.A.B. too but don't phone just drop in and ask for appointment as they are very busy at present.
    Posted: Aug 23, 2010 By: Hombre Member since: May 27, 2010
  6. Lease4Less

    Lease4Less UKBF Enthusiast Free Member

    Posts: 506 Likes: 124
    Sorry, but are you saying that you personally are a victim of fraud, or that the company you used to work for was the victim?

    I understand that they are pursuing you for the debt because of the signed guarantee, but as you mention that the car cannot be found I'm assuming that a fraudulent application has taken place.

    Have the police been involved?
    Posted: Aug 23, 2010 By: Lease4Less Member since: Jul 13, 2010
  7. jimmy156

    jimmy156 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    Posts: 9 Likes: 0
    Thanks fro replying.

    I made an application for legal aid it was turned down by them that’s how i know that legal aid is not available.

    I am still trying to ascertain when and were the contact was signed. I no for 100% i have not signed this contract so. However how do i prove were i was 3 years ago without making up fake witness just like the car grg are doing.
    Posted: Aug 23, 2010 By: jimmy156 Member since: Aug 23, 2010
  8. GenerateUK

    GenerateUK UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    Posts: 3 Likes: 2
    Hello, this is a horrible situation. My suggestion would be to contact the police if you're suggesting that this was a forged signature.

    The police may not be able to solve the situation, however they might be able to make a suggestion on where you stand and whether there has been a crime permitted. My understanding is that it is a criminal offense to forge a signature.

    I would also imagine that a solicitor would ask whether you have reported this to the police as a part of their due dilligence.

    I'm sure there are other more informed members of the forum who could add to this.
    Posted: Aug 23, 2010 By: GenerateUK Member since: Aug 20, 2009
  9. TheGuru2010

    TheGuru2010 UKBF Newcomer Full Member

    Posts: 920 Likes: 105
    Hmm seems a bit tricky, if they have a witness would they not have signed the contact as a witness?

    Surely if its just a employee of the company the court would see through this?

    Also if the lease is for a £100,000 vehicle & they have you as a guarantor did they not want to see that you had some wealth also ?

    Was the lease taken our whilst you was a director of the company? if not would they not have required details of you been a director?

    If it was taken out whilst you was a direct was you none the wiser or asked questions when the vehicle arrived at work ?
    Posted: Aug 23, 2010 By: TheGuru2010 Member since: May 11, 2010
  10. kulture

    kulture UKBF Legend Moderator

    Posts: 6,626 Likes: 1,815
    I would suggest that you go back to legal aid and say that you are being sued as a PERSONAL guarantor and thus this is NOT a business matter. I agree completely with the poster who also suggested going to the CAB, and whilst it may not help, go and see the police.
    When is the court date?
    Posted: Aug 23, 2010 By: kulture Member since: Aug 11, 2007
  11. jimmy156

    jimmy156 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    Posts: 9 Likes: 0
    Hi guys.

    Thank for the reply.

    1. I have been to the police on 7 occasions and they did no intervene as they stated i have not physically lost anything and this is a civil matter etc.

    2. I have been to legal aid chaps and appealed and stated this is a personal matter with the same outcome of saying they cannot help.

    3. This vehicle was signed up whilst I was a director however it never turned up to work. The finance company have none of my details or ID papers etc. Not once was I approached etc, nor were and due diligence checks carried out on me financial checks etc

    4. a £17,000 deposit was paid for this vehicle which quite frankly the company could not afford so i am trying to find out where the money came from and how it was paid to finance. The company it self way only taking 200-500 profit a week. it was a very small business.

    5. The witness on the agreement is the grg owner who is also being brought to court for the money he is the one who has made up these witness’s.

    I hope this helps.

    Thanks guys

    Much appreciated.
    Posted: Aug 23, 2010 By: jimmy156 Member since: Aug 23, 2010
  12. Clarkmans

    Clarkmans UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    Posts: 345 Likes: 81

    I'd be happy to look over the papers to see if I can offer a no win no fee on this.

    Posted: Aug 23, 2010 By: Clarkmans Member since: Apr 30, 2010
  13. kulture

    kulture UKBF Legend Moderator

    Posts: 6,626 Likes: 1,815
    It is entirely possible that you and your company were the victims of identity theft. How do you not know that someone purporting to be you and your fellow director, armed with company "headed" paper, walk into the garage and buy the car for £17,000 plus this finance which will never be paid off.
    The garage may be as innocent as you. I would suggest that most Aston Martin dealers are relatively honest.
    You could harm your case if you continue to suggest that the garage owner is committing perjury.
    Posted: Aug 23, 2010 By: kulture Member since: Aug 11, 2007
  14. Do it yourself

    Do it yourself Guest

    Posts: 31 Likes: 2
    This to me seems the most likely scenario. But for whats its worth - this will boil down to who has the best barrister.

    Good luck.
    Posted: Aug 23, 2010 By: Do it yourself Member since: Aug 21, 2010
  15. Lease4Less

    Lease4Less UKBF Enthusiast Free Member

    Posts: 506 Likes: 124
    I must say that I have never heard of a guarantee being accepted by a finance house without the signatory provided a copy of his/her driving licence, recent utility bill and on occasion copy of passport. Who is the finance company? A large proportion will ask the franchise (in this case the dealership), to sign a disclaimer to say that they have seen your original driving licence. From what you are saying you have definately not provided any of this information so I don't see how a guarantee has been put in place.
    Posted: Aug 24, 2010 By: Lease4Less Member since: Jul 13, 2010
  16. kulture

    kulture UKBF Legend Moderator

    Posts: 6,626 Likes: 1,815
    I have found it MUCH easier to get a mobile phone contract on my company rather than as an individual. For the company all I needed was a utility bill to the company and a letterhead.

    All things that could be foolishly thrown out/picked up.
    Posted: Aug 24, 2010 By: kulture Member since: Aug 11, 2007
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  17. Chris Ashdown

    Chris Ashdown UKBF Legend Free Member

    Posts: 5,036 Likes: 1,097
    Do the company bank records show the £17000 payment?

    Get a copy of all relevant information from the finance company so you know whats what

    They will need to prove you signed it and where the money came from, I doubt a court will take much heed of just a signature that may or may not be you

    Who was the car registered to by the DLVA and who renewed the car tax the next year

    Why have they taken 3 years to come to you if no furter payments were made, you would have expected them to act after a couple of payments were not made

    Are you positive this is not a scam with a fixtisious finance company? just a wild guess but something is just not right

    Go back to the police and demand to speak to the fraud department if no joy write to chief constable with registered letter complaining they have taken no action on a fraud case
    Posted: Aug 24, 2010 By: Chris Ashdown Member since: Dec 7, 2003
  18. davek17

    davek17 UKBF Newcomer Full Member

    Posts: 440 Likes: 97
    I'm no solicitor but there must be a practical way of getting to the truth here.

    Kind of reminds me of when one of my friends got caught by a speed camera in London but he had never ever been there! It turns out it was a car with cloned plates. Just an idea out of the box but could you go and look at how people prove this as it is similiar and there will be plenty about it online.

    Also I think you should be able to get some kind of fix on your mobile phone or a security camera and the Police or your providor can help you with this. Your mobile phone company will also hold records of phone calls made and their rough position through the GSM mast signals. This might help. Likewise did anyone call you or did you use a landline which would verify your location or did you use the internet or send any emails where the IP address could be verified?

    It is very very easy to trace your life these days if you try and all of these records should still be avialable.

    I am amazed that your signature was accepted without any other identity documents? Any owner of any business will tell you that you need about 2 zillion documents these days to get any form of credit for anything. It's almost the fault of the garage if this wasn't done? Ask what was used as this could just be the beginning of your troubles if your passport has been cloned.

    You should have got some documentation sent to your address to confirm the agreement. Where did this go as it could give you a clue?

    Who was present from Aston martin or the leasing company when the signature was taken. This person might remember the people present and if he can categorically state he doesn't know you it might help?

    You need to contact the other solicitor and ask when and where the contract was signed with strcit details so you can exonerate yourself.

    Hope this helps stimulate your own ideas!

    Dave "sherlock" K17
    Posted: Aug 24, 2010 By: davek17 Member since: May 14, 2009
  19. kulture

    kulture UKBF Legend Moderator

    Posts: 6,626 Likes: 1,815
    What kind of court case is it?

    What exactly are they suing you for>

    Have you asked them to provide copies of all their evidence? I believe that they have a duty to disclose all relevant information.

    Go through everything. If you can spot obvious fake documents etc. you can go to the court armed with the correct documents.

    If the con artist who did this stole your identity, and your companies identity, it is likely that they faked some documents with different addresses (as clearly you did not receive copies of finance agreements etc).

    If it is blindingly obvious to you when you see their evidence, that they have no case, then it MAY be worth approaching their solicitor and try to get you removed from the case. BUT get legal advice, even if it is just a short £50 interview with a solicitor, before you do this.
    Posted: Aug 24, 2010 By: kulture Member since: Aug 11, 2007
  20. jimmy156

    jimmy156 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    Posts: 9 Likes: 0
    Hi, thanks for the reply..

    I totally understand were you are coming, the reason i am saying this is because the fellow directors who is also being pursued as a guarantor, first said he never signed the contract, then took his story back and has now said again he has not signed it.

    Furthermore it appears nor the finance company nor the grg do not have any form of my ID papers as they would have realised the clear difference in the signature. Furthermore details of mine such as dob on the contract are missing. But they have these for the 2nd director.

    Last edited: Aug 25, 2010
    Posted: Aug 25, 2010 By: jimmy156 Member since: Aug 23, 2010