J
justme57
- Original Poster
- #1
This is a lengthy one but I hope someone can just help me to start thinking correctly...
I am limited as to just how much information I can give here - but I seriously need help, or should I say a guiding hand and a bit of advice. I think I have come to the right place as these forums are the best business forums I read.
A little history: 18 months ago I started a plan to create a superb online product. I knew exactly what I wanted and was able to plan, design and create it, apart from what I call the 'hard coding'. I have worked online in various capacities for many years, but the one thing I did not want to learn was php and server maintenance/setup etc. I am very capable in many other area's. In my previous years online work I became frustarated with the restrictions and limitations of many online services for business and (I suppose as a 'user') created what I would call the answer to many of the problems in the way of a solution. I was acquanted with a person that had a variety of skills in php/cisco abilities. Although I knew what I wanted, I did not have to skills to completely do this. I suppose for the want of a better way of explaining this, it was a bit like... I could build the car, put everything in place from the body to the upholstery - but I could not put the engine in. Equally, I could not setup and maintain the server. So the technical side of this dream was not within my capacities.
The person I was acquanted with that I seriously thought could do this well was as good a place as any to start considering this. We decided to meet and talk. I briefly laid out my dream and asked if he could do this. He said he could. We talked again where I disclosed the plan in greater detail. He loved the whole thing - thought it was a brilliant product and said he thought it would do amazingly well. We got on brilliantly and we decided to embark on a 50/50 business.
I spoke to a mutual friend of ours who is a highly skilled and very sought after project manager. His first reaction was that I should not have offered this business on a 50/50 split. His arguments were that it is entirely my vision and product and I had the greater workload - although i do not think for one minute he was underestimating the amount of work involved for both of us. His second concern was that (he knew us both well) the other person he said was not someone he felt was a worker.. that he has never known him to finish anything he started. His comments actually was 'he will run a marathon, but always stop before the finishing line - for some reason he has an incapacity to finalise anything. This concern was enormous for me, so I took this up with him. His explanation was ultimately acceptable to me at the time. And so we got on with starting the work.
Once the work started, my dream was under way - I worked every hour god sent to create this solution and I was full of enthusiasm. I planned it to every last detail. I created all the framework, pages, every inch of text, every manual that it required and the rest. My partner also worked hard initially (I think). I say I think as you have to remember here that the work he was doing was foreign to me in some ways and so I was pretty certain he did try to blind me with science now and then, but, the guy was young, pretty full of himself (thought himself a bit of a genuis - which he quite enjoyed of course) being the techy one, he enjoyed explaining things to me and lapped up the praise he got from me.
One thing I will say is that although I could not 100% substantiate the work he was doing, the one thing I did notice at a very early stage was that for a young man with a fantastic possible future in front of him here with this product he did appear to lack the enthusiasm and vigour. At that time I put this down to the fact that as a much older person I was obviously going to spend my every waking hour on this - and I am accused of being a workaholic. But this was my dream coming true. So, who wouldn't be totally obsessed? I tried to think back to my younger days and had to accept that maybe, just maybe I would have been the same... who knows?
Now - this was 18 months ago. During this time a totally different business that I had with my actual partner was being neglected by me (our only income). We agreed that I did an amount of behind the scenes things. He also believed this new product could be our salvation and wanted me to carry on.
My new-to-be partner did not have any other business to worry about and lived at home with parents - but obviously there was pressure on him to earn money too. He earned money here and there doing various local jobs on computers for people. He had been doing this previously also, so nothing really changed there for him. Perhaps this should have been a warning signal for me - but it wasn't at the time.
So now 18 months down the line let me sum up what the majority of the past 12 months has become..
I feel like I have had a dead dog on a lead that I have been dragging. I have discovered he is one of life's leaches. He takes takes takes and gives nothing in return. Even trying to create a working routine with him e.g. 9-5... its almost impossible. If he ever did get there by 9.30 he'd be yawning for the first 2 hours and his head would hit the keyboard by 4pm. Never once did he ever suggest we work late, or at weekend, and when I did, 9 out of 10 times 'something' would come up. It is hard work to say the least. He is depressive, moaning, soft and always ill. He is... I must stress, a really nice person though - I know, it sounds crazy doesn't it - but he is so hard to be angry at as he really has got a nice way with him that makes it impossible for me to be straight with at times. So I chew things over for a long time before I 'suggest' things rather than just tell him straight.
I've set up an office, I pay server costs, marketing for beta customers, and started to create some basics for advertsing. In conjuction with desks, computers and so on I could probably say i have spent between 2.5-3k - Not a massive amount I know, but nevertheless, its all money out of a business that does not yet exist.
He has had times where he needed money. We have provided that - no strings or repayment necessary.
So, we have got to the finishing line. We have the product at a stage where we can now see an end. There are blips and things that need correcting of course, and we have a few things to put in that are a piece of cake in comparison to what has been done.
So whats wrong now? Well - he has decided he wants to throw the towel in! He says he is incapable of that extra mile and has lost heart with it. He has felt like this for some time.
- Just as my project manager friend said in the first place!
I have done all the 'Your making a mistake' conversations, and I do not think it is going to change anything. I am giving him some more space to re-think this, but its not looking hopeful.
At a guess i would say that this product has taken perhaps twice as long to create because of his involvement.
What annoys me is that for quite a long time I have been suggesting that perhaps he needed help. That, naturally would mean we either paid for help or we gave a share - none of these he would entertain at the time.
My immediate concern is the worry of providing access to someone else to start working with me at the moment until I know exactly what to do and where i should begin. I am going to need another partner. One that can manage and do the things he did - but hopefully with a bit more enthusiam. I intend to go and speak to my project manager good friend again and take some further (thankfully free) advice.
My initial thoughts and concerns are these. I need someone to manage all the server activity and maintenance. The other thing is i need someone probably with php + other experience that is going to be able to desipher his code and fix blips in a very complicated system - okay, I know this is going to take time and ultimately a good programmer will probably be able to do this... but at this stage, and for the first time I am totally deflated.
One bit of me wants to hit him and the other half of me says 'you knw what - this just might be the change that's needed'
I am confused, worried and panic is setting in. Because of my limted knowledge of this area i do not know my best way forward.
Someone mentioned using people to create elements of the product (eg like many use the Indian and Asian online programmer otpions). I will still need someone here as I am not going to provide access to all the code that is already done or the server, especially at the moment.
I know there will be people here that can relate somewhat to my concerns and hopeully provide just a little advice to start with.
My biggest concern is that i have spent 18 months of my life on something that someone else seems to be treating in an almost flippant way. This matters to me. I do not intend to stop because of this - my product will be finished by hook or by crook and I hope something good comes out of this - at this stage i have horrible visions of someone trying to drop me from a great height.
One thing I can definitely say is this. The worse that could happen as far as this product goes is that of course he will maintain the code. We both have this of course. The biggest difference between us is an ability to do things - by this I mean the ability to work long hard hours to achieve something. I have to accept this code belongs to two of us, and although people can advice me about this - its already too late. One thing I have in my favour is a vision for finishing this and then the ongoing expansion of it.
I regret sharing my dream and plans with this person in the first place. I just do not know where to start at this very moment.
I am sorry this is so long. I thank you in advance for even being willing to read it.
Thank you.
I am limited as to just how much information I can give here - but I seriously need help, or should I say a guiding hand and a bit of advice. I think I have come to the right place as these forums are the best business forums I read.
A little history: 18 months ago I started a plan to create a superb online product. I knew exactly what I wanted and was able to plan, design and create it, apart from what I call the 'hard coding'. I have worked online in various capacities for many years, but the one thing I did not want to learn was php and server maintenance/setup etc. I am very capable in many other area's. In my previous years online work I became frustarated with the restrictions and limitations of many online services for business and (I suppose as a 'user') created what I would call the answer to many of the problems in the way of a solution. I was acquanted with a person that had a variety of skills in php/cisco abilities. Although I knew what I wanted, I did not have to skills to completely do this. I suppose for the want of a better way of explaining this, it was a bit like... I could build the car, put everything in place from the body to the upholstery - but I could not put the engine in. Equally, I could not setup and maintain the server. So the technical side of this dream was not within my capacities.
The person I was acquanted with that I seriously thought could do this well was as good a place as any to start considering this. We decided to meet and talk. I briefly laid out my dream and asked if he could do this. He said he could. We talked again where I disclosed the plan in greater detail. He loved the whole thing - thought it was a brilliant product and said he thought it would do amazingly well. We got on brilliantly and we decided to embark on a 50/50 business.
I spoke to a mutual friend of ours who is a highly skilled and very sought after project manager. His first reaction was that I should not have offered this business on a 50/50 split. His arguments were that it is entirely my vision and product and I had the greater workload - although i do not think for one minute he was underestimating the amount of work involved for both of us. His second concern was that (he knew us both well) the other person he said was not someone he felt was a worker.. that he has never known him to finish anything he started. His comments actually was 'he will run a marathon, but always stop before the finishing line - for some reason he has an incapacity to finalise anything. This concern was enormous for me, so I took this up with him. His explanation was ultimately acceptable to me at the time. And so we got on with starting the work.
Once the work started, my dream was under way - I worked every hour god sent to create this solution and I was full of enthusiasm. I planned it to every last detail. I created all the framework, pages, every inch of text, every manual that it required and the rest. My partner also worked hard initially (I think). I say I think as you have to remember here that the work he was doing was foreign to me in some ways and so I was pretty certain he did try to blind me with science now and then, but, the guy was young, pretty full of himself (thought himself a bit of a genuis - which he quite enjoyed of course) being the techy one, he enjoyed explaining things to me and lapped up the praise he got from me.
One thing I will say is that although I could not 100% substantiate the work he was doing, the one thing I did notice at a very early stage was that for a young man with a fantastic possible future in front of him here with this product he did appear to lack the enthusiasm and vigour. At that time I put this down to the fact that as a much older person I was obviously going to spend my every waking hour on this - and I am accused of being a workaholic. But this was my dream coming true. So, who wouldn't be totally obsessed? I tried to think back to my younger days and had to accept that maybe, just maybe I would have been the same... who knows?
Now - this was 18 months ago. During this time a totally different business that I had with my actual partner was being neglected by me (our only income). We agreed that I did an amount of behind the scenes things. He also believed this new product could be our salvation and wanted me to carry on.
My new-to-be partner did not have any other business to worry about and lived at home with parents - but obviously there was pressure on him to earn money too. He earned money here and there doing various local jobs on computers for people. He had been doing this previously also, so nothing really changed there for him. Perhaps this should have been a warning signal for me - but it wasn't at the time.
So now 18 months down the line let me sum up what the majority of the past 12 months has become..
I feel like I have had a dead dog on a lead that I have been dragging. I have discovered he is one of life's leaches. He takes takes takes and gives nothing in return. Even trying to create a working routine with him e.g. 9-5... its almost impossible. If he ever did get there by 9.30 he'd be yawning for the first 2 hours and his head would hit the keyboard by 4pm. Never once did he ever suggest we work late, or at weekend, and when I did, 9 out of 10 times 'something' would come up. It is hard work to say the least. He is depressive, moaning, soft and always ill. He is... I must stress, a really nice person though - I know, it sounds crazy doesn't it - but he is so hard to be angry at as he really has got a nice way with him that makes it impossible for me to be straight with at times. So I chew things over for a long time before I 'suggest' things rather than just tell him straight.
I've set up an office, I pay server costs, marketing for beta customers, and started to create some basics for advertsing. In conjuction with desks, computers and so on I could probably say i have spent between 2.5-3k - Not a massive amount I know, but nevertheless, its all money out of a business that does not yet exist.
He has had times where he needed money. We have provided that - no strings or repayment necessary.
So, we have got to the finishing line. We have the product at a stage where we can now see an end. There are blips and things that need correcting of course, and we have a few things to put in that are a piece of cake in comparison to what has been done.
So whats wrong now? Well - he has decided he wants to throw the towel in! He says he is incapable of that extra mile and has lost heart with it. He has felt like this for some time.
- Just as my project manager friend said in the first place!
I have done all the 'Your making a mistake' conversations, and I do not think it is going to change anything. I am giving him some more space to re-think this, but its not looking hopeful.
At a guess i would say that this product has taken perhaps twice as long to create because of his involvement.
What annoys me is that for quite a long time I have been suggesting that perhaps he needed help. That, naturally would mean we either paid for help or we gave a share - none of these he would entertain at the time.
My immediate concern is the worry of providing access to someone else to start working with me at the moment until I know exactly what to do and where i should begin. I am going to need another partner. One that can manage and do the things he did - but hopefully with a bit more enthusiam. I intend to go and speak to my project manager good friend again and take some further (thankfully free) advice.
My initial thoughts and concerns are these. I need someone to manage all the server activity and maintenance. The other thing is i need someone probably with php + other experience that is going to be able to desipher his code and fix blips in a very complicated system - okay, I know this is going to take time and ultimately a good programmer will probably be able to do this... but at this stage, and for the first time I am totally deflated.
One bit of me wants to hit him and the other half of me says 'you knw what - this just might be the change that's needed'
I am confused, worried and panic is setting in. Because of my limted knowledge of this area i do not know my best way forward.
Someone mentioned using people to create elements of the product (eg like many use the Indian and Asian online programmer otpions). I will still need someone here as I am not going to provide access to all the code that is already done or the server, especially at the moment.
I know there will be people here that can relate somewhat to my concerns and hopeully provide just a little advice to start with.
My biggest concern is that i have spent 18 months of my life on something that someone else seems to be treating in an almost flippant way. This matters to me. I do not intend to stop because of this - my product will be finished by hook or by crook and I hope something good comes out of this - at this stage i have horrible visions of someone trying to drop me from a great height.
One thing I can definitely say is this. The worse that could happen as far as this product goes is that of course he will maintain the code. We both have this of course. The biggest difference between us is an ability to do things - by this I mean the ability to work long hard hours to achieve something. I have to accept this code belongs to two of us, and although people can advice me about this - its already too late. One thing I have in my favour is a vision for finishing this and then the ongoing expansion of it.
I regret sharing my dream and plans with this person in the first place. I just do not know where to start at this very moment.
I am sorry this is so long. I thank you in advance for even being willing to read it.
Thank you.
