Best Accounting Software

billie1 · Dec 4, 2008

I know this question may have already been asked but the answers have been inconclusive. What is the best accounting software on the market? I would like to provide bookkeeping services, and have been looking at many different softwares. I have to make a decision as to which on I'm going to learn. I heard about, Quickbooks, MYOB, Sage, Kashflow etc.

The cheapest seems to be Quickbooks and MYOB. Sage is very expensive for multi company use and Kashflow is also quite expensive. On the other hand I've heard alot of bad feedback on Quickbooks 2008 and MYOB has now been taken over by Mamut, so its market is uncertain.

Any ideas?

MyAccountantOnline · Dec 4, 2008

You just know you will be inundated with suggestions

Alot gets down to personal preference so I'll kick off first.

For small companies/businesses/our in house VAT/bookkeeping for clients I reckon VT cash book and VT Transaction+ really takes some beating. It is so simple and does the job. On Transaction + you have a full sales and purchase ledger as well and can email invoices etc. The only limitation I see is the reporting options are a bit limited.

I have had some fantastic feedback from clients I have shown VT.

Quickbooks used to be my prefered option for larger clients but having seen a few clients VAT being totally messed up by updates I am a bit relunctant to now recommend and use it.

Sage...I'll politely say is not my cup of tea.

billie1 · Dec 4, 2008

Regarding Quickbooks, isn't the problem with transfering data into updated versions that's posing a problem with VAT? Would a new user have the same problems?

Peter Bowen · Dec 4, 2008

In all of these packages there are some hidden costs:

Your time in getting up to speed - how fast is it to learn
The software hassles - updating, backups etc
The ongoing costs - do you have to pay for an upgrade every year
The cost of making a mistake - if you buy software in a box and it's not for you you've sunk some money into it - if you rent it monthly it's not a train smash if business conditions change.

My vote comes own to KashFlow for this one.

DFL · Dec 4, 2008

If you think that Kashflow is quite expensive then you must be misinformed about the price!

billie1 said:
I know this question may have already been asked but the answers have been inconclusive. What is the best accounting software on the market? I would like to provide bookkeeping services, and have been looking at many different softwares. I have to make a decision as to which on I'm going to learn. I heard about, Quickbooks, MYOB, Sage, Kashflow etc.

The cheapest seems to be Quickbooks and MYOB. Sage is very expensive for multi company use and Kashflow is also quite expensive. On the other hand I've heard alot of bad feedback on Quickbooks 2008 and MYOB has now been taken over by Mamut, so its market is uncertain.

Any ideas?

billie1 · Dec 4, 2008

I spoke to the bookkeeping department and they quoted

billie1 · Dec 4, 2008

I spoke to the bookkeeping department and they quoted me £700 per annum which is alot more than quickbooks which costs £450 for premier version if you buy it outright and £299 for Pro if you buy it outright

DuaneJackson · Dec 4, 2008

Hi Billie,

I don't know about the others, but with KashFlow you get more than just the software. Did you speak to one of the Partner salespeople or did you just ask the person who answered the phone what the cost would be?

If you're looking for the cheapest option, it's probably not us. But if you're looking for the best then it probably is.

Jenni384 · Dec 4, 2008

DFL said:
If you think that Kashflow is quite expensive then you must be misinformed about the price!

I disagree - KashFlow is expensive: contrast the monthly fee, for a one-off fee for something like Solar Accounts, Sage Instant or QB Simplestart which will last a good few years.
However that's not comparing like with like. Kashflow offers a lot and you do get excellent value for money. But I would still describe it as fairly expensive (sorry Duane!)

I'm going to mention Solar again - download the free trial and see what you think. I love it.

I wouldn't touch the new version of QB (I run QB2005 and love it), I don't know MYOB, Sage is expensive (and you either love it or hate it).

Kashflow would be my online solution of choice if you chose to go that way - remember it's also going to be up to your client whether they want to pay monthly for software too. Others to choose from are products like Xero, E-conomic and... urm... I can't think of any others but there a few.

As Nicola says, VT is excellent too.

Good luck

Fernhurst Solutions Ltd · Dec 4, 2008

Not like Jenni to run out of advice

..... so another on-line solution could be Liquid Accounts

DuaneJackson · Dec 4, 2008

No need to apologise, Jenni. I'd rather that than be called cheap!

As you say, it's not comparing like for like. Most of our KashFlow Partners make money by being a partner. Hence the surprised comment from DFL I guess.

Wild Goose · Dec 4, 2008

Nicola HJ said:
I have had some fantastic feedback from clients I have shown VT.

Nicola, do you know anything of VT's plans to make their free beta downloadable a chargeable service from September next year (or thereabouts)?

Nicola HJ said:
Quickbooks used to be my prefered option for larger clients but having seen a few clients VAT being totally messed up by updates I am a bit relunctant to now recommend and use it.

We got pushed, nay bullied - well sort of mentally onsloughted - into snortin' QB for one or two Inner City American take-ups ("gee, it's number one in the States"). And they told their friends.
QB is bad for your health. Do not inhale.

Nicola HJ said:
Sage...I'll politely say is not my cup of tea.

Hmmm I guess that'd be because you prefer a non-singin' non-dancin' cup of tea. I was smitten with TAS until Auntie Sage bought it.

Jenni@FarrantFrost said:
I disagree - KashFlow is expensive: contrast the monthly fee, for a one-off fee for something like Solar Accounts, Sage Instant or QB Simplestart which will last a good few years.
However that's not comparing like with like. Kashflow offers a lot and you do get excellent value for money. But I would still describe it as fairly expensive (sorry Duane!)

Hmm that'd be the rather prohibitive £700 specially priced for beannies joining fee. Jenni, how about getting clients to join Kashflow directly on their own account? Duane, how about a little leeway here - there's a recession on for chrissakes and £700 could go a long way towards a tank of petrol.

Jenni@FarrantFrost said:
I wouldn't touch the new version of QB (I run QB2005 and love it), I don't know MYOB, Sage is expensive (and you either love it or hate it).

Grrrrr!

Jenni@FarrantFrost said:
Kashflow would be my online solution of choice...

Mine too, if only I could afford the £700 entrance fee! Seriously Duane, that's a big entrance fee if you're a trade customer. I'm on the opposite tack to you by gifting free accounts to our bookkeeping clients (conversely Kashflow allows accountants to offer free bookkeeping to their accounts clients, dear reader), so, as much as I like Kashflow's simplicity (think "I-pod", reader - Kashflow's user friendly), it simply doesn't fit our pricing model. C'mon Duane, freebies and tempting offers are needed! Wife, six expensive cars and two children to run!! Hang on, my dyslexia's kicked in!

btw don't tell Ling about the free accounts or she'll get the OFT on to us - apparently free accounts are anti-competitive! Ouch!

oldeagleeye · Dec 5, 2008

The following might interest the OP

http://launchlab.co.uk/article/Starters-for-ten/Duane-Jackson,-founder,-KashFlow/583

MyAccountantOnline · Dec 5, 2008

Nicola, do you know anything of VT's plans to make their free beta downloadable a chargeable service from September next year (or thereabouts)?

My understanding is that the basic cashbook product will still remain free though which is actually very good for some very small businesses.

I honestly wouldnt expect VT's free software to last forever!

I should add I have no connection to VT apart from being a very happy user of the current free product.

I am not in any way criticising packages where a user pays monthly such as Kashflow, far from it, but many clients seem to resent a monthly payment for software. I think when people say expensive thats sometimes what they mean - they dont look long term. The younger more entrepenerial business owners will but you still have alot of businesses that are run in a very traditional manner.

Jenni384 · Dec 5, 2008

Wild Goose said:
Hmm that'd be the rather prohibitive £700 specially priced for beannies joining fee. Jenni, how about getting clients to join Kashflow directly on their own account? Duane, how about a little leeway here - there's a recession on for chrissakes and £700 could go a long way towards a tank of petrol.

I wasn't even thinking about the partner fee, to be honest (which is £919 a year - we aren't VAT reg here at FF), simply the £15.99 a month.

I keep suggesting KF to my clients (on their own account), with the view that if enough are interested, I would consider joining the partner programme. So far I have zero clients using KF, and that's not through lack of trying!
Therefore there is no point in us becoming a partner firm at this stage.

Alpha · Dec 5, 2008

It s really just a case of utilising what works for an individuals practice.

We don't have a problem with £700 per se (We pay nearly £2000 for Sage) and we give it to clients FOC as it is far better than having half completed spreadsheets, unanalysed analysis books and paper bags full of receipts.
Being online means that we can look in on clients record keeping to see how they are doing, make agreed changes if neccessary and generally be more in control.

I know it would be far better to make sure the client received training on their chosen method but often the type of clients that use spreadsheets and manual analysis are those that wouldn't pay for it anyway

Jenni384 · Dec 5, 2008

Alpha said:
I know it would be far better to make sure the client received training on their chosen method but often the type of clients that use spreadsheets and manual analysis are those that wouldn't pay for it anyway

Ain't that the truth!!

Wild Goose · Dec 5, 2008

Nicola HJ said:
Nicola, do you know anything of VT's plans to make their free beta downloadable a chargeable service from September next year (or thereabouts)?

My understanding is that the basic cashbook product will still remain free though which is actually very good for some very small businesses.

I honestly wouldnt expect VT's free software to last forever!

Hello Nicola,

Here's where I think there might be a time-bomb due to go off 31st October (not September) next year for those using the free VT cash book:

The free download of VT cashbook is at
http://www.vtsoftware.co.uk/cashbook/index.htm
The first "click here" button on that page gets you the download; click it and you'll see the download is named TransplusSetup.exe and the file size is 13.5mb. There's no mention of any time use restrictions for this free version, although we are told that "VT Cash Book and VT Transaction+ are always installed together, but you do not need to enter a license key to use VT Cash Book". I see, so the download TransplusSetup contains VT Cash Book and VT Transaction - they seem to be integrated - but we're only going to activate VT Cash Book because that's the free part ( VT Transaction+ being a pay service)..

All of which would be fine, except for a worrying statement on http://www.vtsoftware.co.uk/tranplus/index.htm which is a different page from which the free software is downloadable. We are instructed to "Click here to download and install VT Transaction+ 2009 and VT Cash Book 2009. Notice that gets you the same download as the link from the page I mentioned previously in the paragraph above (TransplusSetup.exe 13.5mb). The worrying statement? "To continue using the software after 31 October 2009 you will need to enter a license key". Ouch, I wonder how much a license key will cost?

I cannot imagine that VT mean you will need a license key for VT Transaction+ 2009 in October of next year - the site appears to indicate that you'd need tp buy a license key from the off for that. So I conclude that VT can only mean that you will need a license key next October for the "free" VT Cash Book 2009.

What do you think Nicola?

I suppose in a sense you have the same situation with any software provider - anyone can hike their prices once they have a captive audience. But if it is the case that VT are planning on introducing charges for what has been distributed as free software you have apparently been warned - at least if you downloaded from their second page (but not if you downloaded from their first page). Time-bomb or not?

MyAccountantOnline · Dec 5, 2008

Wild Goose said:
Hello Nicola,

What do you think Nicola?

I suppose in a sense you have the same situation with any software provider - anyone can hike their prices once they have a captive audience. But if it is the case that VT are planning on introducing charges for what has been distributed as free software you have apparently been warned - at least if you downloaded from their second page (but not if you downloaded from their first page). Time-bomb or not?

In all honesty I wouldnt expect VT to continue giving out a free bit of software for ever and I think most users would appreciate that.

I think most satisfied users will gladly pay for this software when the time comes unless they set a a ridiculous price.

billie1 · Dec 5, 2008

Jenni, what don't you like about quickbooks 2008? I was told the problem with it was transfering 2005 data. I was told as a new user I wouldn't face any problems with it. Is their any truth to that?

DuaneJackson · Dec 5, 2008

Stop underpricing our Partner Programme software! It's £799 a year, not £700 or £699. Pricing here.

Jenni@FarrantFrost said:
However that's not comparing like with like. Kashflow offers a lot and you do get excellent value for money. But I would still describe it as fairly expensive (sorry Duane!)
...
Kashflow would be my online solution of choice if you chose to go that way - remember it's also going to be up to your client whether they want to pay monthly for software too.

Just to clarify, there are no monthly fees for you or for your clients via the Partner Programme.

For each client you have using the software you pay us £49 a year (although first year is effectively 14 months as your client can use it for free for 60 days before you/he commit to a full year). If the client came to use directly then they'd pay £15.99 a month - equiv to £191.88 a year.

Wild Goose said:
Jenni, how about getting clients to join Kashflow directly on their own account?

We do have Partners that start out that way. But assuming you have more than 5 clients doing it that way, then you're losing out financially.

15.99 x 12 x 6 = £1151.28
799 + 1 free license + 5 x 49 = £1044

So that's £107.28 a year in my pocket instead of yours or your clients. Add a further £142.88 a year for each client you have over 6.

That's before even factoring in the huge time saving that the Partner software will create for you (I assume you're all aware of what it can do for you rather than just looking at the £799 being a straight forward fee to be able to resell our software?)

See the Tax Assist London case study here for an example of someone with an nice incidental revenue stream from their KashFlow Partner Programme membership.

Wild Goose said:
Duane, how about a little leeway here - there's a recession on for chrissakes and £700 could go a long way towards a tank of petrol.

Grrrrr!

Mine too, if only I could afford the £700 entrance fee! Seriously Duane, that's a big entrance fee if you're a trade customer. I'm on the opposite tack to you by gifting free accounts to our bookkeeping clients (conversely Kashflow allows accountants to offer free bookkeeping to their accounts clients, dear reader), so, as much as I like Kashflow's simplicity (think "I-pod", reader - Kashflow's user friendly), it simply doesn't fit our pricing model. C'mon Duane, freebies and tempting offers are needed! Wife, six expensive cars and two children to run!! Hang on, my dyslexia's kicked in!

Look at it from my point of view though, or if you were my accountant and advising me.

We're still on a nice upwards trajectory on our Partner Programme sales. If I start giving away freebies then how do I incentivise (oe even pay!) my salespeople and how do I explain to the Chairman that no, we had no problems selling it at £799 but yes, I've started giving it away for free.

January is always interesting for us. If your SA103s are all done because you've been able to see your clients keep on top of the books all year and chase them up if they slack, then odds are you're a KashFlow Partner already. Most other accountants are too busy to take sales calls from us.

I do hear what you're saying though. I'll have a play with some numbers and see what I can do in terms of an offer for January. But it will be time limited and it will be UKBF only.

Jenni384 · Dec 5, 2008

billie1 said:
Jenni, what don't you like about quickbooks 2008? I was told the problem with it was transfering 2005 data. I was told as a new user I wouldn't face any problems with it. Is their any truth to that?

I've not used it. I've just read too many bad things about it.
I also don't like their new product and pricing structure.

Philip Hoyle · Dec 5, 2008

Wild Goose said:
I suppose in a sense you have the same situation with any software provider - anyone can hike their prices once they have a captive audience. But if it is the case that VT are planning on introducing charges for what has been distributed as free software you have apparently been warned - at least if you downloaded from their second page (but not if you downloaded from their first page). Time-bomb or not?

I recommend VT to clients, not because it is currently free, but because it is good. The old version of VT transaction was very competitively priced, as is VT accounts. I know that VT will start charging for VT transaction again once the final version is up and running and my clients know that, but if it is anything like their old VT transaction programme, I think it is about £100 as a one off purchase fee, so it is still good value if you have to pay for it. I've been using VT accounts for several years and they havn't imposed silly price increases on that, despite it doing well in surveys, etc. Unless VT make the same mistake as other firms and sell out to one of the big firms, I for one am confident that they won't "screw" their customers - some firms do still have some integrity! I hope I'm right with VT!

Jenni384 · Dec 5, 2008

DuaneJackson said:
We do have Partners that start out that way. But assuming you have more than 5 clients doing it that way, then you're losing out financially.

15.99 x 12 x 6 = £1151.28
799 + 1 free license + 5 x 49 = £1044

So that's £107.28 a year in my pocket instead of yours or your clients. Add a further £142.88 a year for each client you have over 6.

That's before even factoring in the huge time saving that the Partner software will create for you (I assume you're all aware of what it can do for you rather than just looking at the £799 being a straight forward fee to be able to resell our software?)

Thanks Duane

Yes, I do see the logic! I just feel like we need to have at least a few clients who have tried it and like it, before we go for it

We have a policy of not forcing clients to use software they don't like or can't get on with (which is more of a 'we won't force you to use Sage' policy, I realise the majority of users love KF

) so it would be a bit of a new direction to go the KF route. However what with new developments here it's something we do need to discuss and consider.

DuaneJackson · Dec 5, 2008

Jenni@FarrantFrost said:
We have a policy of not forcing clients to use software they don't like or can't get on with (which is more of a 'we won't force you to use Sage' policy, I realise the majority of users love KF ) so it would be a bit of a new direction to go the KF route. However what with new developments here it's something we do need to discuss and consider.

We'd never want you to force clients to use KF. Just let them try it and make sure they know we're here with Free UK-based support 24/7 if they need any help with it.

Obviously it's in our interests to sell you as many client licenses as possible. So we have lots of tools to make it easy for your clients to register for a trial account attached to your partner programme with minimal effort for you.

billie1 · Dec 5, 2008

Need some answers? What is the real problem with quickbooks 2008? Will a new user experience the same problems as a user transfering data from one version to the next?

DuaneJackson · Dec 5, 2008

billie1 said:
Need some answers? What is the real problem with quickbooks 2008? Will a new user experience the same problems as a user transfering data from one version to the next?

Hi billie.

If the problem is with transferring data, then a new user would have no data to transfer so wouldn't suffer the same problems.

QB is a well established product. I know the 2008 version has some problems (they broke multicurrency support) but it's still happily used by lots of people.

You'll need to suck it and see. Noone will be able to give you the answers you need. There is no "best" product. It's all subjective.

MyAccountantOnline · Dec 5, 2008

billie1 said:
Need some answers? What is the real problem with quickbooks 2008? Will a new user experience the same problems as a user transfering data from one version to the next?

I have QB 2008 Pro and I dont think their is a problem with that.

I understand problems have occurred when people have run automatic updates from older versions.

The messes I have seen with peoples VAT has just put me off.

DuaneJackson · Dec 5, 2008

Here we go then, a very special offer for UKBF accountants.

I hope it helps entice you onboard, or atleast to take a closer look at it.

YODspica · Dec 5, 2008

DuaneJackson said:
Here we go then, a very special offer for UKBF accountants.

I hope it helps entice you onboard, or atleast to take a closer look at it.

Special offer £599. on the official kashflow website the normal price is £189 with 60 days free.

Thanks for the offer

.

DuaneJackson · Dec 5, 2008

YODspica said:
Special offer £599. on the official kashflow website the normal price is £189 with 60 days free.

Thanks for the offer .

So one of the following must be the case:

a) you've made a mistake and are looking at a different one of our products
or
b) I'm a rip-off merchant taking all the accountants here for mugs.

KM-Tiger · Dec 5, 2008

DuaneJackson said:
I'm a rip-off merchant taking all the accountants here for mugs.

Trying for a nomination for "Best of UKBF"?

Philip Hoyle · Dec 5, 2008

billie1 said:
Need some answers? What is the real problem with quickbooks 2008? Will a new user experience the same problems as a user transfering data from one version to the next?

There is a problem with its algorithm if you have more than one analysis line on a payment or invoice. In the old versions, you could enter VAT on a line-by-line basis for each line of analysis. In 2008, it works out VAT on a total invoice basis, so you end up in a loop with it constantly changing both the VAT total and for some bizaar reason the net value of the first analysis line. QB support know about this and keep trying to tell me it is right and that it isn't a problem. So if you anticipate entering having payments or invoices with several different analysis lines, some vatable, some not, you're going to have problems using QB 2008 - the best you can do is enter such items as separate payments/invoices.

MyAccountantOnline · Dec 5, 2008

In case anyones interested I emailed VT to ask about pricing, and how long the Cash book package would be free - here's the reply. (I did ask VT if they were happy for me to copy this on here first!)

VT Cash book will remain as a free download permanently. VT Transaction+ which is now available for sale, although the free download will continue to work until October 2009, is priced at £125+vat.

Regards
Victoria Frazer
VT Software Limited

Philip Hoyle · Dec 5, 2008

DuaneJackson said:
Here we go then, a very special offer for UKBF accountants.

I hope it helps entice you onboard, or atleast to take a closer look at it.

Duane, I'm sure that many people who are already KF accountants won't be too impressed to find out they've got a worse deal by not haggling on a public forum, and may feel a bit ripped off that others can join for less than they paid. I don't think you're doing your reputation any good by this kind of thing. I don't see a problem with a one-off "sale", but in your case, you're offering long term changes, i.e. number of client licences, that seem to be permanent, not just a one-off, no doubt the same with your annual fee for membership. You need to be wary of creating a "two tier" membership where some are forever paying more or less than others for the same service.

wood1e2 · Dec 5, 2008

HAs anyone mentioned Access Accounting?

Quickbooks is brilliant if you like to be able to delete everything you have done wrong.

Which can help when people have made some mistakes, although the audit trail was a nightmate.

Sage use to get me depressed with it's refusal to do previous year/current year P&L...this may have changed, they may have improved the CSV export to not include all the rubbish like the reference numbers...

Have you tried MS Excel or OO Calc, one sheet for all your ins and one sheet for all your outs...one minus the other equals profit.

Obviously your business may be two large for that simplistic approach.

Just as a side issue, I spoke to an accountant recently and they do not include T accounts in training these days... No wonder so many mistakes are still made even when using software.

DuaneJackson · Dec 5, 2008

Philip Hoyle said:
Duane, I'm sure that many people who are already KF accountants won't be too impressed to find out they've got a worse deal by not haggling on a public forum,

...

I don't see a problem with a one-off "sale", but in your case, you're offering long term changes, i.e. number of client licences, that seem to be permanent, not just a one-off, no doubt the same with your annual fee for membership.

Hi Philip,

This was something I discussed with Michelle (our head sales person) as she had the same concerns as you.

The offer for the additional client licenses is first year only, as it says on the offer, not indefinite. Although the the discount on the annual fee would be ongoing. We've always promised that you stick with whatever price you sign up at.

I'd probably be happy to reduce everyones annual fee to the offer price if they're also happy to have their price increased when we increase the price in the future.

It is a one-off sale. I bought a sofa recently at a price I was happy to pay. The next week I saw it advertised on TV with 40% off. Annoying yes as I should have perhaps held out and bought it at the lower price. But I was happy to pay what I did for it so wasn't a problem.

The way I see it is that sales liek these are just a fact of life and hopeully wont upset too many existing customers.

DuaneJackson · Dec 5, 2008

wood1e2 said:
HAs anyone mentioned Access Accounting?

I thought they were more mid-range and enterprise. Do they have an offering suitable for SMEs?

MarkHallett · Dec 5, 2008

Access Accounting - Great Mid tier accounting software. Not really for small businesses....

Wild Goose · Dec 5, 2008

Nicola HJ said:
In case anyones interested I emailed VT to ask about pricing, and how long the Cash book package would be free - here's the reply. (I did ask VT if they were happy for me to copy this on here first!)

VT Cash book will remain as a free download permanently. VT Transaction+ which is now available for sale, although the free download will continue to work until October 2009, is priced at £125+vat.

Regards
Victoria Frazer
VT Software Limited

Wow! Wonderful! Well done Nicola. Just goes to show you can look at a thing too hard. :redface:

VT Cash book permanently free? That's solved a big problem with yours truly's clients who'd been promised free Kashflow programs in their stockings. And I guess it'll dovetail with VT accounts. Yee-hah!

Ahem... thank you Nicola. Your finders' fee is in the post

Best Accounting Software

Fernhurst Solutions Ltd

MarkHallett

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